Wiring Questions

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Ok

I need to fiddle about with a wiring loom, and make one up

I shall probably use 1mm thinwall wire to give everything a tad more strength (I know I can use .5mm but its Oh so delicate)

I have a series of Questions re this next "Project"

1. There will be some wires where they need to be joined within the loom, what the best way to do this ?

ie remove plastic sleeving and solder wires together then heat shrink or is there a better way ?

2. protection. When this is all done I want to give it more protection than just wrapped in harness tape, options and ideas please ? I have been told that heat shrinking the whokle assemble is NOT a good idea as it is not then very flexible, so thoughts please ?

3. Wire itself - is wire all the same, ie is there some manufactuers whos wire is better for some reason than another ?. if so why and who wire is best ?

4. Suppliers - I have used VWP in the past, but are there other compnaies that may be cheaper, as this could be a big order ?. If so who ?

Ta everso in advance

Nige

[Mark90]

1. There will be some wires where they need to be joined within the loom, what the best way to do this ?

ie remove plastic sleeving and solder wires together then heat shrink or is there a better way ?

OK pass me the big thick anorak it's a tad chilly out at the mo

[white90]

solder and heat shrink for joints loom tape only to cover it all sound the best option.

heat prrof tape under the bonnet may be a good idea to.

I use spiral binding on all wiring I install nowdays

[madmatt]

solder and heat shrink for joints loom tape only to cover it all sound the best option.

heat prrof tape under the bonnet may be a good idea to.

I use spiral binding on all wiring I install nowdays

I have in the region of 120 mts of extra wiring on my 130!!! The advice I can give is this, Solder all the joints you can and heat shrink, solder into existing looms and use self amalgamating tape to ensure its waterproof.

Where i had lots of cables to keep tidy I used that heavy duty black conduit type stuff thats split down its entire length, Its not to bad to get cables in and out of in the future and it protects against any possible chaffing etc,

Matt

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Found this chap on eBay... http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Premier-Wiring

Prices look good!

If you solder joints and heatshrink them, they will be bombproof...but you won't be able to undo them. I solder everything that is semi-permenant. Wiring is one of the few things that I spend time on...simply because from experience, it is electrics that will stop you getting home.

I actually carry one of these...damned useful! Gas soldering iron

[Mark90]

Ok serious answer now, seems as though I do it like others here.

For permanent fixings, solder then heat shrink.

For less permanent fixings (such as lights that are replaced regularly due to tree incidents ) I use 4.7mm bullets with hex crimp, not at all water proof but easy to change, although I don't think this is what you're after.

To keep cables together neat and tidy and protect from abrasion I use split flexible convoluted tube. It provides a good level of protection and is easy to add/remove wires without uncoiling the whole lot.

[nas90]

Soldering is good but where the solder runs along the wire it will be very stiff. Just make sure you put the joint where you do not want to turn a corner. You can get some plated fasteners which you crimp and then solder, much better since the solder runs through the crimp and the wire, now that is belt and braces and with heat shrink and corrugated plastic sleeving job done! You can get the crimps from Wurth do not know the part number.

[LandyManLuke]

Tinned copper wire is better than plain copper, stops corrosion/verdigris, however it's expensive and (i've found) difficult to get hold off, Chandleries being the only source so far, and marine stuff is never cheap.

Body earths IMHO are a problem waiting to happen, when i add wiring i run seperate earths for everything and use a bus bar to the battery.

I hate loom tape, leaves everything horrible and sticky, which is a pain when you need to work on something. spiral wrap/split tube is much better.

You can get heat-shrink crimp terminals, which are very nice. far superior to standard crimps terminals.

[Petergg]

I don't solder to easy to get a dry joint.

I use these Heatshrink Splices.

Peter

[FridgeFreezer]

You can get glue-free loom tape that is basically sparky tape but with no glue, doesn't leave things sticky. I like flexi conduit though.

Solder & heat-shrink (or self-amalgamating tape) is pretty bomb-proof. For ultimate neatness you get heat-shrink joints:

RS #219-6591 etc.

[Henry Webster]

Does solder not move with vibration. I'm not a wiring expert, but I would imagine it would be safer to use heat shrink crimps or proper connectors with crimped terminals.

I have tried heat shrinking the whole assembly which is good, if a little inflexible (not too bad) but it does stop abrasion. The downside is you are building it not to fail so if you then have a failure it makes it more difficult to fix without running new cables.

Just some thoughts.

[LandyManLuke]

Solder on it's own is prone to fatigue, hence heatshrinking the joint, heatshrink provides mechanical strength, as well as keeping water out.

Dry joints aren't really a major hazard, as long as you make sure the wire and solder are clean, the tip hot, etc.

Also, there's no need to excessively fill the wire with solder, making it stuff over any length. it's not adding anything.

[wormhole]

Ok

I need to fiddle about with a wiring loom, and make one up

I shall probably use 1mm thinwall wire to give everything a tad more strength (I know I can use .5mm but its Oh so delicate)

I have a series of Questions re this next "Project"

1. There will be some wires where they need to be joined within the loom, what the best way to do this ?

ie remove plastic sleeving and solder wires together then heat shrink or is there a better way ?

2. protection. When this is all done I want to give it more protection than just wrapped in harness tape, options and ideas please ? I have been told that heat shrinking the whokle assemble is NOT a good idea as it is not then very flexible, so thoughts please ?

3. Wire itself - is wire all the same, ie is there some manufactuers whos wire is better for some reason than another ?. if so why and who wire is best ?

4. Suppliers - I have used VWP in the past, but are there other compnaies that may be cheaper, as this could be a big order ?. If so who ?

Ta everso in advance

Nige

I would suggest you need to watch the current carrying capacity of 1mm thinwall - VWP says it can carry 16.5A but this value will not account for it being enclosed with all the other cables, I had a 2mm feeding the headlights circuit (I make this circuit load approx 160w so 13.3A - the 2mm was far too hot for my liking (rated at 25A), I realise that thinwall cable is OK to run hot but this was a single exposed cable and I could bearly keep my hand on it...

Suppliers - I have just started using

http://www.dun-bri.com/ who have a sideline for connectors, cable etc http://www.workshoponline.co.uk/

I bought some Anderson connectors from them as they were cheaper than VWP and had more range (I needed yellow to go with a AA jump start wiring set I had bought).

Only disadvantage of them is working out how much cable is on a drum - no contacts, just a satisfied customer (you can order online unlike VWP)

For parts other than cable I would use http://www.power-store.com/ - they are the online wing of Merlin Equipment - very quick delivery, some kit is expensive, but seems very good from what I have bought - I got one of these -

it was expensive (£95) but ideal for what I wanted - also look at their fuse boxes, they look much better quality construction but price wise not far from VWP.

Hope this helps!

[BogMonster]

1. There will be some wires where they need to be joined within the loom, what the best way to do this ?

Use a knot.

[madmatt]

Body earths IMHO are a problem waiting to happen, when i add wiring i run seperate earths for everything and use a bus bar to the battery

Luke where do you get these from you got any pics??

Thanks

Matt

[Yoyodyne]

For lengths from front to rear I use trailer wire, available from caravan shops. I rewired my lightweight using 7 core - enough for lights, indicators etc and I earthed each unit straight back to a good earth on the battery. Poor earths cause no end of problems fron electrolitic corrosion to badly behaved lights. And avoid Scotchlocks - they are the invention of the Devil!

[LandyManLuke]

Luke where do you get these from you got any pics??

Mine was from Merlin Electronics, i think i picked it up at the boat show.

The picture's a year or so old, it's quite a bit more crowded now.

Luke

[rtbarton]

Be careful with earth return wires - it is possible to burn a harness out if the engine earth comes off and the starter current tries to go through the loom!.

I've used harness tape (non sticky PVC tape) and spiral wrapping. To join wires I've used solder or crimp butt connectors. If you use solder use proper cored solder for electrical work, don't use plumbing fluxes such as Fry's, it will corrode the joint. Plumbing solder and electrical solder are different ratios lead:tin.

If you have to join several wires in a harness try to stagger the joints to avoid unsightly bulges.

I've made by own crimps from copper pipe when I've had a lot of wires to join together.

You can always use vaseline to stop the ingress of unwanted moisture. Works well on electrical connections too.

[FridgeFreezer]

Vaseline is good, all our crimps (beans) at work come pre-loaded with it:

They stand up to moisture pretty well.

[Mark90]

Be careful with earth return wires - it is possible to burn a harness out if the engine earth comes off and the starter current tries to go through the loom!.

Both my engine and gearbox have big fat earth cables direct to chassis (belt and braces), the gearbox one even shares the same stud as the battery to chassis cable. I don't like poor earths.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

You can get glue-free loom tape that is basically sparky tape but with no glue, doesn't leave things sticky. I like flexi conduit though.

Solder & heat-shrink (or self-amalgamating tape) is pretty bomb-proof. For ultimate neatness you get heat-shrink joints:

RS #219-6591 etc.

I'm nearly as excited as Moglite seeing these babies

Keep the thoughts coming (well the sensible ones anyway )

Nige

[rtbarton]

Both my engine and gearbox have big fat earth cables direct to chassis (belt and braces), the gearbox one even shares the same stud as the battery to chassis cable. I don't like poor earths.

The best way is to earth the battery to the block (use a starter motor bolt) and then to the chassis from another starter motor bolt. If the link to the chassis fails the starter current will still go through the thick wire from the battery, if the battery lead comes off there won't be any starter current.

If you connect the battery to the chassis and then the engine to the chassis (like Landrover do) and the chassis/block link comes off the starter current will go through the harness, speedo cable, choke cable, accelerator cable &c &c

[MogLite]

I'm nearly as excited as Moglite seeing these babies

I'm wearing mine at the moment

I'd advise a little baby powder to ease assembly and reduce chaffing.

I meant talcum powder - not powdered babies

[Mark90]

If you connect the battery to the chassis and then the engine to the chassis (like Landrover do) and the chassis/block link comes off the starter current will go through the harness, speedo cable, choke cable, accelerator cable &c &c

Hence why I have two chassis to block links, one engine to chassis, one gearbox to chassis, starter current can go through either of these. If chassis to battery link fails, well not a lot of anything can flow.

[Outrage]

My wiring all runs in convoluted tubing with the ends sealed against water entry using amalgamating tape. this allows easy addation of new circuits.

I did my permanent interconnections using the large yellow ring crimps, with the ring cut off. Just gather all your ends together, push into the crimp at one end, crimp and then use tubed heatshrink over the lot. You get a good electrical joint with no solder.

None permanent connections are done with these:

the wire end side of the multi-connector is made watertight with a suitable sealant.

Other things worth considering are bussed fuse holders. you can get them now but at the time i just settled with surface mounted ones from VWP and made the busbar out of flattened copper pipe soldered onto the crimp tabs. incoming cable is simply connected by ring crimp onto the copper section. remember you will have to make up something to protect the busbar from shorting on the metalwork though!

Cheers,

Lee.

P.s. you can never have too many main earths! I've got one from the earth terminal of the battery to the chassis, another to the engine block (bolt near the injector on the 2.5NAD) and one from the starter motor bolt to the chassis.