GBMUD Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 So I bought a Range Rover. OK, it was cheap and seems in very good condition for a 1987. Trouble is, now that I have it home and has been sitting for a couple of days, it will not effing start. It is on the road and I cannot even get it into the driveway which is a pain. It is a 1987 3.5EFi auto and has an immobiliser fitted which I assume is functioning. I have sprayed WD40 inside and out of the dizzy cap and around the plugs. There is fuel in the tank, I put it there personally. It started OK on the trailer on Monday morning very easily and ran poorly for about 30 seconds before dying - sounded like the fast idle was U/S so I left it. Came to unload it off the trailer yesterday (to return the trailer) and it started and ran very poorly, misfiring all the while before dying and not restarting. First question in my dignostic checklist then, should the rev counter move at all while I am cranking? It remains on the needle stop all the while. I am assuming that it is driven off the ignition circuit and should register while cranking if there is a spark, is that right? Should the fuel pump be audible at any stage? I cannot hear it. Thanks Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Chris, The rev counter probably wont register until the engine is running and the alternator is "excited". The fuel pump wont be heard unless the flapper is moved, to test this, turn ignition on, remove air filter, press the flapper and listen. A good investment (circa £5) is some inline spark testers from the likes of halfords. Might be wise to have a full replacement of ignition systems, coil, leads etc. Fuel filter ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 take a plug out & lay it (still connected) on a rocker cover when cranking to see you you get a spark? immobilisers normally do two circuts, such as starter/fuel pump/spark. so that could be your problem although i suspect not as it run before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Do the easy stuff - have you got spark, have you got fuel pressure, are the injectors firing? A good move is to splice an inline filter on the return line from the fuel pressure regulator, then you should see fuel flowing back at quite a rate when the engine is running / pump is on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nas90 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 So I bought a Range Rover. OK, it was cheap and seems in very good condition for a 1987. Trouble is, now that I have it home and has been sitting for a couple of days, it will not effing start. It is on the road and I cannot even get it into the driveway which is a pain. It is a 1987 3.5EFi auto and has an immobiliser fitted which I assume is functioning. I have sprayed WD40 inside and out of the dizzy cap and around the plugs. There is fuel in the tank, I put it there personally. It started OK on the trailer on Monday morning very easily and ran poorly for about 30 seconds before dying - sounded like the fast idle was U/S so I left it. Came to unload it off the trailer yesterday (to return the trailer) and it started and ran very poorly, misfiring all the while before dying and not restarting. First question in my dignostic checklist then, should the rev counter move at all while I am cranking? It remains on the needle stop all the while. I am assuming that it is driven off the ignition circuit and should register while cranking if there is a spark, is that right? Should the fuel pump be audible at any stage? I cannot hear it. Thanks Chris Chris I would start with a nice new set of plugs ONLY NGK I would never use anything else after 22 years of V8 Rovers. The Nas fuel pump runs until it reaches pressure with ign on takes about 3 seconds I can hear it in a flimsy 90 you might not in your bling RR. As above spark and fuel then come back to us.......................... Have fun, you know you are a petrol head at heart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Chris I would start with a nice new set of plugs ONLY NGK I would never use anything else after 22 years of V8 Rovers.The Nas fuel pump runs until it reaches pressure with ign on takes about 3 seconds I can hear it in a flimsy 90 you might not in your bling RR. As above spark and fuel then come back to us.......................... Have fun, you know you are a petrol head at heart! Did it run peoperly at all or did you buy running rough. once you have looked at the above and if it has not run properly TDC it and reset the Timing to check its at least close to were it should be to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I'm amazed nobody's covered the most obvious solution yet.... In terms of probabilities it usually comes just before Fridge mentions M*gasquirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Turbocharger, do you mean the "D" word? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 Have fun, you know you are a petrol head at heart! Petrol head maybe; I think I have a diesel wallet though and I certainly do not have the patience for a petrol! The car was running fine when I test drove it (although it was warm when I arrived) and nothing much has changed since then other than the temperature of the engine - and the car is 150 miles further west! There is no particular reason why anything should have failed since then. The plugs are new and shiney (on the outside) and I have the bill from the last service 500 miles ago. I will check the sparks and fuel delivery tomorrow. How does one check that the injectors are firing? By removing one? I wonder if it may be flooded having been cold started and idled briefly twice, before overcoming itself with over richness. I might try some E**y St**t if all else fails... Thanks for the advice so far, I will let you know as more is needed. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyodyne Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 When you put petrol in are you sure it was petrol not diesel? (you wouldn't be the first, you will not be the last and YES, I have done it myself - fortunately it was only a lawnmower!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 Certain. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 MMmm Do you have any mates that have a 3.5 efi that will lend you there ECU to test that and rule it out as as a faulty item. then the temp sensore could be a fault but normaly will only run cold then die when it gets warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Check you are getting fuel pressue...easy check...pull out the cold start injector and crank it over. You should get a spray of petrol for a few seconds. If not, you have an ECU or fuel problem. Personally, my money is on it either being out of fuel, or dirty plugs. If you are 100% sure you have enough fuel in the tank then pull out four plugs and give them a going over with a wire brush. If the plugs are dirty, should be able to get it running on four then take it for a good rag. While you have one plug out check for a good spark as suggested above... The 3.5 flapper arrangement is pretty bullet proof...it is going to something simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 Simple? I hope so. I will have a good look at it tomorrow morning and report back. It was running when I bought it and I have since added a gallon of unleaded from a can - only about a month old so not stale. The coil looks old but the rest of the ignition system looks newer. I am suspicious that there is no fuel pump audible at any time, I will check sparks first and fuel second. After that I will buy another gallon of petrol... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrode Finger Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Simple? I hope so. After that I will buy another gallon of petrol... Chris Umm....... does it just have a gallon in it? Reason i ask, my hybrid supposedly had fuel and would not run, it turned out that it needed a couple of gallons in it before the thing was happy to run, i guess there was not enough fuel in the tank to get it to pick it up. Once it had 2half gallons it started fine, it was then left to run for a long while, right up to temp, just to clear the cobwebs. Just a thought, worth a tenner before more drastic action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 i've got a disco 200tdi engine complete for £500....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Didn't the efi rr's in that era have a fuel pump cut off under the passenger seat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Hmmmmmmmmmm................. You said it ran OK when it when hot ............... it has started when cold but ran very f'kin rough ?................. but now it wont start........ This sounds very much like the coolant temp sensor has packed up (very common problem)............. they will often go open circuit and the engine then thinks the coolant temp is about -40c and if its a flapper it then fires off the 9th injector whilst cranking.......... this weather that will flood the engine. You could disconect the coolant sensor and loop a 180ohm resistor across the plug contacts ................ or you may be able to start it by disconnecting the 9th injector on the plenum. I you want a coolant sensor to try ............. I have a spare................. its the blue coloured sensor nearest the plenum .......... the sensor on the outside of it is the thermotime switch (brown cloured) that is also coupled to the 9th injector......... I have a spare. If you have a multimeter handy you could test the resistance of the coolant sensor and relate that to the current air temp.......... I am not at home at the moment so I cant post the values. You have my mobile number Chris and I am at home tomorrow late morning / pm if you want some telephone assistance. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imspanners Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 may just be flooded if you've driven onto the trailer, then tried to start it to drive off again? Pull fuel pump fuse and crank with throttle open, see if it tries to start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Does unplugging the air flow meter send the ECU into limp home mode on the flapper systems like it does on hotwire ones? If so, and it is a sensor problem, it would get you running so you can get it onto the drive. If you think it's flooded, switch off the fuel pump (lift the push button under the back of the passenger seat on hotwire cars - if flapper doesn't have a fuel cutoff switch pull the fuse) and turn it over a bit to clear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 No, there is no limp home on the flapper...............if you disconnect the flapper then you will lose the fuel pump as there is a closing contact on the flapper to tell the ecu (Lucas 4CU) that the engine is running. If the coolant sensor is knackered then doing a flood clear does very little....... cos the engine will re flood as it is cranked for a restart. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 OK. I have confirmed that the fuel pump is OK by removing the feed to the cold start injector and then cranking the engine - petrol everywhere! I removed no-1 plug, a newish NGK plug, and it is VERY wet, I assume with petrol, and well fouled. Initially there was no apparent spark. I tried for a spark on the king lead and there seems to be a spark there although it does not seem to be visible - I am not sure if it is tracking back up the ceramic to the plug outer as there is a spark visible between the thread and earth when there is not a good connection. I refitted the plug and removed the fuse for the fuel pump - a 30 amp in place of the 10 it should be. I cranked the engine with the throttle wide open for a few seconds and the engine did fire a few times. I replaced the fuel pump, disconnected the cold start injector and tried again. Again it fired but did not catch. I, and it, repeated this several times. I am going to Halfords now to buy new plugs and some Easy Start. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I could be wrong but if the plugs are wet you don't need any more fuel so easy start may not help. for the sake of a tenner have you changed the temp sensor, this may help and is the most comon over fueling instigator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I could be wrong but if the plugs are wet you don't need any more fuel so easy start may not help.for the sake of a tenner have you changed the temp sensor, this may help and is the most comon over fueling instigator. I agree with Jules that easy start (or Start you ba*tard , as they call it in Aus) will not help. Save your money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imspanners Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 If it's trying then there's just too much fuel. Try cranking over several times without fuel-pump fuse in. Then start cranking again, and insert fuse. You may need to tickle the throttle to get the air-mix correct but it should start then. As others have said, don't bother with easy-start, as there's too much fuel, already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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