patpat Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 300tdi LR Genuine Water Pump Hi guys, I've bought a 300TDI Genuine Water Pump PEB500090 but what I've got it seems to me is not genuine, what do you guys think? Does anybody have pictures of a GENUINE PEB500090 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=7547 there is one in this thread PS multiple posting across different sections isn't really a good thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonb Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 300tdi LR Genuine Water PumpHi guys, I've bought a 300TDI Genuine Water Pump PEB500090 but what I've got it seems to me is not genuine, what do you guys think? Does anybody have pictures of a GENUINE PEB500090 ? That is what the genuine one looks like when it comes in a genuine parts box from LR, fitted one a few months back. Its been redesigned from the "tin plate" type impeller type, hence the part number change, also comes with gasket which the old ones didn't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patpat Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 That is what the genuine one looks like when it comes in a genuine parts box from LR, fitted one a few months back. Its been redesigned from the "tin plate" type impeller type, hence the part number change, also comes with gasket which the old ones didn't... well I do not think it's the case, it seems to me somebody is cheating here, look at these pictures I've just got, same new part number but the rotor is still being the classic stainless steel rotor ! http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8546/lr5oz2.jpg http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/3955/lr11pt5.jpg http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8498/lr6eh4.jpg what's going on here? are they selling OEM pumps as genuine stuff?? LR never sold anythyng with a gasket.. or in a plastic bag, did they?? is there any technicall bulletin saying anything about a 300TDI water pump change??? are you completely sure what you've installed is genuine??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 If it doesn't say Land Rover on the sticker and it didn't come in a genuine parts box then it's not genuine. End of. Send it back. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 When I bought the parts for the 300TDi engine I specified that it must all be genuine parts. However, the gasket set is in a Payen packet and when I asked about this I was told that Payen supply gen gaskets and they are the exact same thing. The pistons aren't in L/R boxes either - I think parts to customers are more often ordered directly from the maufacturer, rather than the main agent, so you get a gen part, but not in a L/R box. You still pay the higher price too 4 x Piston kits cost me £234, and gasket set £72 Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 As Mo said, it's not a LR genuine part but a OEM part, most parts suppliers use LR's part numbers to cross reference parts from other manufacturers, as on the box of Les H's pistons above the STC number is a genuine LR part number. a genuine LR 300Tdi part number is STC1086 & is common to all 300Tdi engines regadless of parent vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patpat Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 this is terrible, it seems even the LR Representatives (the ones that should sell no more that LR GENUINE parts) are also selling OEM as GENUINE!! If we're asking and paying for LR GENUINE that means we want LR "getting involved" in the part quality control process.. that's why we're willing to pay more, but some "middleman" is taking that as extra profit and we do not get what we paid for !!!... shouldn't they be reported to LR to police to who??? I hate when they steal money this way!! about the part number, the PEB500090 it is a Genuine LR part # the genuine pump with that number is pictured here http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8546/lr5oz2.jpg http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/3955/lr11pt5.jpg http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8498/lr6eh4.jpg but this pump is far away from the one they sent to me even on a box with a LR sticker !!!!!! just compare the pics Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 the OEM or supplier has used the latest LR part number to ident thier item. I'm wondering if the new pump you have is for the 2.8TGv variant of the 300Tdi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patpat Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 the OEM or supplier has used the latest LR part number to ident thier item. Yes... I think so, but the problem is that the pump was bought on eBay to a well known LR reseller who says was provided for an LR Representative that even sent several e-mails to me swearing that the part is GENUINE when it's obvious that the pump is OEM !!! I'm wondering if the new pump you have is for the 2.8TGv variant of the 300Tdi. well what I've bought was a 300TDI water pump I think LR should know the difference... Let see how this story goes, I'm fighting for my GENUINE PUMP, they are no going to get ahead with this so easily.... Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I don't think it quite works the way you are thinking Pat. I ordered the parts from Bearmach, they then ordered the parts from the main agent (T.H.White). I would say that the main agent ordered them from the manufacturer and the parts were then sent directly to Bearmach. In this way the main agent gets his huge cut of the profits for the sake of a phone call. Bearmach get 4% discount on dealer only parts, so as usual the main agent gets most of the money. Damned unfair, but that's the way it is unfortunately. Don't know if you know it or not, but OEM parts are parts made to the same spec as genuine parts, so lifespan and quality should be exactly the same as the one that comes in a fancy Land Rover box. Of course - OEM to some parts manufacturers means something entirely different Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patpat Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 I don't think it quite works the way you are thinking Pat. I ordered the parts from Bearmach, they then ordered the parts from the main agent (T.H.White). I would say that the main agent ordered them from the manufacturer and the parts were then sent directly to Bearmach. In this way the main agent gets his huge cut of the profits for the sake of a phone call. Bearmach get 4% discount on dealer only parts, so as usual the main agent gets most of the money. Damned unfair, but that's the way it is unfortunately. Don't know if you know it or not, but OEM parts are parts made to the same spec as genuine parts, so lifespan and quality should be exactly the same as the one that comes in a fancy Land Rover box. Of course - OEM to some parts manufacturers means something entirely different Well I do not think that OEM is the "same" as LR Genuine. let say the XXX manufacturer supplies LR and Britparts... I think LR Quality Controls are going to be tougher than Britparts QC... then the quality of LR GENUINE and OEM cannot be the same... Also tougher QC means rejected parts.. What do you think XXX does with the LR QC rejected parts???? Well I do not think XXX always destroy the whole rejected batch.... What you say is that when you buy a GENUINE LR part the LR main agent (T.H.White) contact the XXX manufacturer and this one sends the part directly to Bearmach (following your example) and Bearmach gives you the part on the fancy LR Box., well if this is the case let me be naive and believe that LR performs their acceptance QC on XXX premises... I think when we pay more money for GENUINE LR stuff we are not just paying for a fancy box with a cool label... We pay for more quality... OEM Q is always poorer than LR GENUINE Q on the fancy box... Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 The genuine L/R part doesn't actually mean quality look at the rest of the crud they can supply.. 300TDI clutch forks TD5 engine loom 300/V8 alarm spider Aux drive belt tensioner P gasket all carp in their own right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 If 'Freds factory' usually make the water pumps for Land Rover vehicles and then Land Rover tell them to send you (or Bearmach) one, the only difference is that the exact same water pump might come in different wrapping. With Britpart, etc, the parts are made elsewhere (usually abroad), and not necessarily to the standard that Land Rover specify, which is why after-market parts normally don't last very long (Britpart being a prime example of poor quality parts). I wouldn't worry about the wrapping - who made it and to what specs is the most important thing. OEM Q is always poorer than LR GENUINE Q on the fancy box... No it's not - OEM is to manufacturers specification (in this case Land Rover). Not every water pump (or whatever) is personally inspected by Land Rover, a sample for testing initially at the start of production/prior to manufacturing contract, and then randomly to check the quality stays the same. You could theoretically buy a gen item that is carp, but it's less likely. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patpat Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 If 'Freds factory' usually make the water pumps for Land Rover vehicles and then Land Rover tell them to send you (or Bearmach) one, the only difference is that the exact same water pump might come in different wrapping. With Britpart, etc, the parts are made elsewhere (usually abroad), and not necessarily to the standard that Land Rover specify, which is why after-market parts normally don't last very long (Britpart being a prime example of poor quality parts). I wouldn't worry about the wrapping - who made it and to what specs is the most important thing. I do not agree with you, almost every manufacture process "naturally" produces more than one quality, there's always at least two bins labeled "good ones" & "not so good ones" No it's not - OEM is to manufacturers specification (in this case Land Rover). Not every water pump (or whatever) is personally inspected by Land Rover, a sample for testing initially at the start of production/prior to manufacturing contract, and then randomly to check the quality stays the same. You could theoretically buy a gen item that is carp, but it's less likely.Les. Off course I know that not every GENUINE pump is personally inspected by LR's CEO and there are statistical factors involved but finally there's a Quality Control process; you think that this process is the same for an OEM or Genuine part, I believe they have different quality control processes; tougher for the GENUINE part.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Pat if you are so dead set on a genuine part why did you buy from ebay? you'd have been better to go straight to a main dealer. what is the issue? the part looks up to the job and I guess as you got it cheaper on ebay you are looking to save a few ££ why not fit it and give it a try? IMHO L/R genuine part is nothing to shout about in reality, I've had genuine parts fail the same time span as pattern ones. and new L/Rs with a host of faults from the factory. 3 lift pumps on the car so far 2 genuine L/R and currently a Britpart one, time will tell I guess L/R is not know for the highest quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I do not agree with you, No, really? In that case, go and buy a water pump from your local main dealer, fit it and chuck the empty fancy box in the bin. Also sue the supplier of the pump you have right now. Or alternatively - fit the cheap pump you bought and see how long it lasts. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patpat Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 Patif you are so dead set on a genuine part why did you buy from ebay? you'd have been better to go straight to a main dealer. good question, well the auction said LR GENUINE 300TDI PUMP including this pic the price was fair, what you would've done? what is the issue?the part looks up to the job and I guess as you got it cheaper on ebay you are looking to save a few ££ why not fit it and give it a try? No way, why should I ??, if I've bought LR GENUINE I want "to try" LR GENUINE... IMHO L/R genuine part is nothing to shout about in reality, I've had genuine parts fail the same time span as pattern ones.and new L/Rs with a host of faults from the factory. 3 lift pumps on the car so far 2 genuine L/R and currently a Britpart one, time will tell I guess you are missing the point; My question was "is this pump GENUINE??" . I haven't asked "Hey guys how long is this OEM (or pattern) pump gonna last??" L/R is not know for the highest quality even when you're right I think you're missing the point again... I'm not talking about LR quality on itself; I'm just comparing LR Quality with OEM.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I'm sorry I've lost the will to go on. genuine part genuine price go to the Main Dealer A lesson for us all.. For now I'll leave this thread to go on its merry way as I'm missing the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Thats the joys of E-Bay. I only buy off e-bay where I can either "write off" the money if I've been conned (never happended yet but close once), or if expensive collect / cash (saved my bacon few times) Genuine vs Non genuine is one thing, and non genuine can vary higely - ie track rod genuine vs say Quinton hazel mintex hardy spicer = fine as quality items many of which have supplied LR in the past (LR do change suppirs or have multiple suppliers), but some is truly junk. Buy buying off ebay is a whole diferent problem As a rule I use genuine and buy fom a dealer, as should you have, trusting blinding tht you'll always get what you wnat from e-bay is I am sorry to say very naive - use this as a learning lesson. Either return to seller (if they will give you the time of day) for refund (unlikely), or just fit it and see and chalk it down to experience, or bin it and buy from a dealer Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shox Dr Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 sounds like he's more p1ssed with not getting the parts as they "appear" in the picture, and I agree it is misleading. As for OEM OEM ; Original Equipment Manufacturer That means it has been supplied to the manufacturer at the point of assembly, they might not come in a box, they might not have the same look, but they are to the same spec' as a part you would purchase if it came in Retail Branded Packing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 You have a few choices.. 1. Fit and forget the one you have taking pride in the knowledge you saved a few quid by buying off ebay. Get on with life, enjoy Christmas with your friends and family. 2. Send the one you have back and ask for one used in the auction photo. Once it arrives fit and forget it and take pride in the knowledge you saved a few quid by buying off ebay but probably not quite as much as option 1 as you will have had to pay for return postage. Get on with life, enjoy Christmas with your friends and family. 3. Send the one you have back and ask for a refund then go to your local main dealer and buy one from there. Fit it then get on with life, enjoy Christmas with your friends and family but with a bit less money in your pocket as you would have had with options 1 & 2. Sorted. The sun rises, the sun sets, life goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I've lost the will to live Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I would only buy genuine parts from a franchised dealer over the counter (which I do). You have clearly been mislead by the photo as the part you received is clearly not genuine boxed land Rover. Either fit it or try to get a refund - good luck. If the others say it's OEM then you've got off lightly as it could have been a very nasty County part made in India. Personally I'd just fit the OEM part and put it down to experience. If you're aggrieved with the vendor and can't get satisfaction the leave them negative feedback and don't use them again, simple. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicks90 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 i dont care who makes the water pump on my 300tdi, as long as it works. i forked out a small fortune on a replacement genuine over the counter water pump for my 90 when the P gasket failed. My thinking was after 120k miles, if the gasket has failed then the pump is probably past its best as well - so replace the lot! and as others have said, go genuine to get a guaranteed qwuality. HA took it out of the box and the impeller was loose on the shaft! bearing had that much play in it i was shocked. took it back and got a replacement after much swearing at the parts manager. Checked that one whilst i was there. That too showed up play. Argued the toss with him for a while "they all have play mate, its fine" - "no they dont, when they get play that bad - they start to leak!" eventually got a 3rd one off the shelf (incidentally he put the other 2 back on the shelf behind him with the other water pumps for some other unlucky punter). this one had no play in it, so i accepted it and went home to fit it. 2 weeks later it was leaking and making a right racket. took it off and it had - you guessed it - loads of play and leaking around the shaft. Got a 4th replacement and so far so good after 3 months. but just goes to show, gen-new-wine LR parts are NOT necessarily any better than OEM stuff. i was frankly appalled at their quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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