nicks90 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 you do not need a working prototype or anything like that to get a patent pending. this will stop any other sods from stealing the design/idea and putting their own patent in. a simple and explanatory line drawing is all you need. However - WARNING! getting a patent is very expensive. You need approx £5K to get a patent all the way through the system in the UK and US/int patent systems. Its the paperwork and existing patent searches that take the time and money. but getting a patent pending is cheap and easy and should in the short term protect your idea. Well worth doing this and then trying to find out if any other companies have done something simillar and patented its design. If not, you could approach people like {insert company name here - other than scrapiron) for funding for the patent and design and let them manufacturer/sell it under licence. you would own the patent, get commission for any units sold and have to do no work for the money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 One problem with patents is that you make your plans public, this means someone else can adapt them. A guy I knew designed & sold an electronic device and he deliberatley incorporated a duff component on the circuit board. If anyone copied it it just wouldn't work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 One problem with patents is that you make your plans public, this means someone else can adapt them. And another problem is the cost of defending them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 you do not need a working prototype or anything like that to get a patent pending.this will stop any other sods from stealing the design/idea and putting their own patent in. a simple and explanatory line drawing is all you need. However - WARNING! getting a patent is very expensive. You need approx £5K to get a patent all the way through the system in the UK and US/int patent systems. Its the paperwork and existing patent searches that take the time and money. but getting a patent pending is cheap and easy and should in the short term protect your idea. Well worth doing this and then trying to find out if any other companies have done something simillar and patented its design. If not, you could approach people like {insert company name here - other than scrapiron) for funding for the patent and design and let them manufacturer/sell it under licence. you would own the patent, get commission for any units sold and have to do no work for the money! A patent for this is not worth the paper its written on; for a start it is a different application for an existing idea. Also, if you read the thread I count at least 2 applications of the idea on winches. So its not new and therefore forget the patent. If you were to come up with a device that would use a hot exhaust as a powersource for a winch, that might be worth a patent. Untill that happens, I will be using the good old PTO, which incidently, does not overrun. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 You also can't patent an idea, it had to be an actual product! Back to the point in question though, sounds interesting and definatly something i would try - but with it being so simple (less than 5 components, a few connections and a case) it would need to reflect this in the price. Concept very good - in practice its something id like to see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 For something like this, a patent is not going to provide much help - even if it were patentable. A better option is just to encase it in potting compound (epoxy resin). This just stops the casual enquirer from figuring it out. Considering the market, it's probably plenty. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 A better option is just to encase it in potting compound (epoxy resin). This just stops the casual enquirer from figuring it out. Considering the market, it's probably plenty.Si I'd do that anyway given the environment it'll be working in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Some people (me for one) would rather pay somebody who has done the design and testing a few bob extra than either (a.) try to work it out myself or (b.) buy one that was copied in China. Or perhaps a self assembly kit like the MegaJolt/Squirt setup would sell? All of the above is assuming I had a real winch rather than a vapour one which never runs on anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troddenmasses Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Sounds like a great idea - I would probably have one if the price were right. One point, though. This would effectively be sold as a piece of safety kit - what would happen the first time somebody got their pinkies caught up in a winch? The first thing that people tend to do (in my experience) is look for somebody else to blame. I can see the solicitors letter now telling you that they are willing to settle out of court if you wish. All i'm saying is that even if the product is perfect, make sure that the instructions have had some thought as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clbarclay Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I work for an american company and there are certain words like 'safety' that are taboo on documents for the potential legal reasons. It can make paper work very difficult to say the least. Another example of this happening is on tractors with automatic steering where it would have been very easy to incorportate a waring sound when approching a headland, but it was never produced due to the potential for being sued. I say build it (at least build a prototype) but don't sell it as a 'safety feature' unless you get some suitable form legal protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Projectblue Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 What a great idea, I wonder where Bish got the idea from ........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted December 21, 2007 Author Share Posted December 21, 2007 What a great idea, I wonder where Bish got the idea from ........... Did I mis-credit him? You can have a gold star too if it will help?! Agree about the word 'safety' - worth avoiding. A self assembly kit would be OK - however, I think you might feel cheated when you see how simple it is! I'd have to add a big PGA with about a thousand pins to solder to give you a sense of achievment in building it! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Did I mis-credit him? You can have a gold star too if it will help?!Agree about the word 'safety' - worth avoiding. A self assembly kit would be OK - however, I think you might feel cheated when you see how simple it is! I'd have to add a big PGA with about a thousand pins to solder to give you a sense of achievment in building it! Si Definitely avoid anything that shifts liability onto you if something goes wrong. Some form of disclaimer is probably a good bet too. IMHO don't offer a build your own kit as that'll make life far easier for someone who wants to copy it. As you say, this isn't really protectable by patent and it’s probably not worth it given the scale you'll be manufacturing on and potential profits. I'd do as you suggested and set the whole thing in a resin block as that's probably the best protection you can easily have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Wightman Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I think Britpart already incorporate this dead stop when you release the switch so the technology is already there but they seem to be the only people using it as far as I know. Perhaps you could point me in the direction of the details for this feature? Britpart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 What a great idea, I wonder where Bish got the idea from ........... Errr, Bish got this idea from being fed up with fricking 8274's over running when he was co- driving and spending stupid amounts of time either unravelling an over wrap or pulling on the rope whilst the motor slowed to a stop instead of doing something productive! Did my head in I can tell you. If Si can fix the overrun with a bit of clever electrickery that I wont even pretend to understand then I think the 8274 would then be rid of its only major flaw IMHO. Watching with baited breath.... Anyhow Dave, I thought the sort of overrun you suffered from was third gear related....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Projectblue Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Errr, Bish got this idea from being fed up with fricking 8274's over running when he was co- driving and spending stupid amounts of time either unravelling an over wrap or pulling on the rope whilst the motor slowed to a stop instead of doing something productive! Did my head in I can tell you. If Si can fix the overrun with a bit of clever electrickery that I wont even pretend to understand then I think the 8274 would then be rid of its only major flaw IMHO. Watching with baited breath.... Anyhow Dave, I thought the sort of overrun you suffered from was third gear related....? I thought you might have had some inspiration from some fool who thought the best way to stop it winding in was to hit reverse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian M Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 any more news on these yet simon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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