geoffbeaumont Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 like driving a GTO in the rain Now you're talking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav- Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 thanks for the reply, I knew of someone who ran a 820 turbo lump in a qt racer in the midland offroad club, sounded ace and went well too. I thought about going small petrol, but i am still paying high fuel prices. admittedly, lr lumps are not at the height of diesel technology, but they are cheap to buy and cheap to run. So what do you think would be the best engine to chose? 300tdi or 200tdi? I have driven both, theres a 200tdi in the trayback i am building now. and i had a 300 in a disco before i crashed it(should have kept it for the engine now!) Which one is more tuneable etc? What mods did you do , honitonhobbit on the 200?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 thanks for the reply, I knew of someone who ran a 820 turbo lump in a qt racer in the midland offroad club, sounded ace and went well too. I thought about going small petrol, but i am still paying high fuel prices. admittedly, lr lumps are not at the height of diesel technology, but they are cheap to buy and cheap to run. So what do you think would be the best engine to chose? 300tdi or 200tdi? I have driven both, theres a 200tdi in the trayback i am building now. and i had a 300 in a disco before i crashed it(should have kept it for the engine now!) Which one is more tuneable etc? What mods did you do , honitonhobbit on the 200?? Ahh technology - I have a real fight with my luddite half over this, The wife has a 1.9RedI VW 130, I have a 150PS Astra Derv Burner, the hack at work at the moment is a 320d with 204bhp. On a private road the Astra is touching the rev limiter in 4th at 110 with two gears to go! Yet my 200Tdi can be fixed with a hat pin and a lump hammer. God knows what I need to do if the Passat stops going, apart from ring TJ101... That 2.0ltr TC in the QT was down at the big inter club comp at Tiverton a while back. God but it was quick on the straights, and into the bends - wow. With a 7k rpm redline, just hold that gear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 HFH or BBC with thier petrol drinking ozone destroying melodious delights You say this as though its a bad thing ? Erm.... HFH or BBC with thier petrol drinking ozone destroying melodious delights Yep, definately works for me (in a pig, stick, and grease free sort of way) nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Gav, are the diesels in the different racing class as the V8's .........................or will you prefer coming last................ FFS........Both the 200 & 300 are agricultural tractor engines in terms of b@lls out racing diesels .................. the 50 year old V8 deisgn can at least be made to have a little refinement............... Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav- Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 yes diesels are in class 4, whilst i am currently in class 7, Just a thought, are there any other diesels i should consider before concluding on a land rover engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 2.8 Isuzu 3.3 Nissan SD 3.0 BMW 3.0 Toyota The first two are the cheapest and easiest to fit. The SD lump is a a very high revving unit being a marine design but it does have huge gobs of torque. The Dagos love them for racing. Talk to young Jezmond about the Isuzu Much as I love the old Buick lump it is ancient - designed before ww2, crude and inneficient (like an 8274). It needs so much done to it to come any where near modern (or pre modern lumps) in terms of grunt/oomph. It's a great enthusiasts engine. There are far better V8's around that will produce so much more for less effort - allowing the effort to be put into the fitting. Take the old porshe quad cam lump or the Toyota V8 for example. And what about V6's from Ford (the explorer unit or a nice cossie 2.9), Nissan (with ready fitted turbos), Toyota and Mitsubishi. It's the old blinkered syndrome again - keep thinking in the box and don't look up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Pah Mines got a lid I'll have you know Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Just a thought, are there any other diesels i should consider before concluding on a land rover engine? All of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Much as I love the old Buick lump it is ancient - designed before ww2, crude and inneficient (like an 8274). Oh dear............. more non factual bull sh!te from the armchair offroader.................. WWII began in 37 and ended in 45 ........................it started almost 20years before the design of this engine.............. Buick first experimented with aluminum blocks / heads during the mid to late 50's ............... the first engine was released in 61...........the olds version did not appear until 62 for use in the cutlass............. Even at first release the 215 was developing 150bhp at 4400rpm .............. some slightly tuned versions using Rochester twin barrel carbs were doing 185bhp and used in Buick skylark specials................ The engine was a pioneer in power to weight ratio and very efficient................. this made it an immediate favorite with race designers............ The 215 was the first ever stock engine to be run in the Indy 500 in 62 ............. driven by non other than Mickey Thompson............ The same design, but the 6 bolt Olds blocks, were used to build the Repco V8 in which Jack Brabham won the Formula one championship in 66 & 67 ............ Yes, i am old enough to remember those races................ Buick dropped the engine in 63 as the capacity was too small for the growing USA markets .............Rover group bought the tooling and rights in 65, however, GM trying unsuccessfully to purchase the rights back again............... Rover offered to sell them engines, but GM told Rover to go forth and multiply ..... Generally bull sh!t baffles brains, but NOT here................FFS beardy .............. get your f'kin facts right.............. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksmelly Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Fit a BMW 2.5 Diesel or a 3 litre Diesel then speak to Mr JJFearn. Lots of people race with BMW diesel engines in the BORC / BCCC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Ahh Ian, old age is blurring history again! WW2 started when Germany invaded Poland in 1939 (not '37) and the first designs of the Buick 215 (in cast iron) were first drawn up in 1938 but due to the war not released to the public until 1961. The change to aluminium was first tried in 1953. Oldsmobile and Buick dropped the engine in 1963. Tooling was sold to Rover in 1965 (twenty years after the end of WW2... So there you old b*gg*r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Ahh Ian, old age is blurring history again! WW2 started when Germany invaded Poland in 1939 (not '37) and the first designs of the Buick 215 (in cast iron) were first drawn up in 1938 but due to the war not released to the public until 1961. The change to aluminium was first tried in 1953. Oldsmobile and Buick dropped the engine in 1963. Tooling was sold to Rover in 1965 (twenty years after the end of WW2... So there you old b*gg*r Nope, your BOP history seems a little blurred……………… Buick engines were always well ahead of their time. In 31 they release the STRAIGHT 8 which was an overhead valve design and very, very popular. At this time most other manufacturers were using side valve engines……….. Yes the onset of WWII did delay the release of the FIRST Buick V8 ……… it was the straight 8 that spawned the design of the cast iron blocked V8 nailhead in 53 (which I might add was an exceptional year). The engine design was ready in 40 but delayed until 53 due to the world conflict. Buick at that time wanted to produce the straight 8 as a smaller package, and Vee was the way to go. This was an engine that produced a lot of low end torque, but was limited at the top end by its extremely unusual small valve design…… hence ‘nailhead’……………it came in two sizes 264 & 322. These engines are sort after as ‘history’ pieces and there are several that are fully restored in the US The 215 was developed purely as an aluminum engine in the mid to late 50’s. Yes the design in lots of areas can be traced to the nailhead, but the cam, heads, & valve train were ‘all new’ for that era. BTW: Officially the second world war started in 37 between China and Japan. Then in 39 Hitler invaded Poland ………. The amalgamation of these two conflicts is called World War II…………….especially after the Germans invaded the Soviet Union in June 41, and the Japs bombed pearl harbour in Dec 41, which brought the superpowers in to active play……………. Now just admit defeat and call me dad …………….my BOP history is almost complete and a subject that I have researched for many years ………… and dont get your nailheads and 215's mixed up in future Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkw90 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 How can you put a price on an ear to ear smile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Nope, your BOP history seems a little blurred………………Buick engines were always well ahead of their time. In 31 they release the STRAIGHT 8 which was an overhead valve design and very, very popular. At this time most other manufacturers were using side valve engines……….. Yes the onset of WWII did delay the release of the FIRST Buick V8 ……… it was the straight 8 that spawned the design of the cast iron blocked V8 nailhead in 53 (which I might add was an exceptional year). The engine design was ready in 40 but delayed until 53 due to the world conflict. Buick at that time wanted to produce the straight 8 as a smaller package, and Vee was the way to go. This was an engine that produced a lot of low end torque, but was limited at the top end by its extremely unusual small valve design…… hence ‘nailhead’……………it came in two sizes 264 & 322. These engines are sort after as ‘history’ pieces and there are several that are fully restored in the US The 215 was developed purely as an aluminum engine in the mid to late 50’s. Yes the design in lots of areas can be traced to the nailhead, but the cam, heads, & valve train were ‘all new’ for that era. BTW: Officially the second world war started in 37 between China and Japan. Then in 39 Hitler invaded Poland ………. The amalgamation of these two conflicts is called World War II…………….especially after the Germans invaded the Soviet Union in June 41, and the Japs bombed pearl harbour in Dec 41, which brought the superpowers in to active play……………. Now just admit defeat and call me dad …………….my BOP history is almost complete and a subject that I have researched for many years ………… and dont get your nailheads and 215's mixed up in future Ian Ian, normally I like to humour a senior citizen like yourself, especially with such obvious signs of early onset dementia; however depsite this and our long friendship I will continue to point out that you are talking rubbish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Could you two please pack it up ? SOME of us are trying to get to sleep in a nice box (with lid) that I am thinking in before beeboos Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 I have been doing a bit of research today and dsicovered that Ian's old mate Tacticus wrote (in Περί Στρατηγικων Τάξεων Ελληνικων) about the concept and initial design of the Buick 215 (not many people know that Tacticus worked for Buick or that Ian is actually that old!) back in 106. The first working model was unvieled by Gallileo in 1564 - however Galileo's championing of Copernicanism was controversial within his lifetime. The geocentric view had been dominant since the time of Aristotle, and the controversy engendered by Galileo's opposition to this view resulted in the Catholic Church's prohibiting the advocacy of heliocentrism as potentially factual, because that theory had no decisive proof and was contrary to the literal meaning of Scripture. Galileo was eventually forced to recant his heliocentrism and spent the last years of his life under house arrest on orders of the Inquisition. Thus delaying the release of the finished engine to 1961 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 gav have you read this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 I have been doing a bit of research today and dsicovered that Ian's old mate Tacticus wrote (in Περί Στρατηγικων Τάξεων Ελληνικων) about the concept and initial design of the Buick 215 (not many people know that Tacticus worked for Buick or that Ian is actually that old!) back in 106.The first working model was unvieled by Gallileo in 1564 - however Galileo's championing of Copernicanism was controversial within his lifetime. The geocentric view had been dominant since the time of Aristotle, and the controversy engendered by Galileo's opposition to this view resulted in the Catholic Church's prohibiting the advocacy of heliocentrism as potentially factual, because that theory had no decisive proof and was contrary to the literal meaning of Scripture. Galileo was eventually forced to recant his heliocentrism and spent the last years of his life under house arrest on orders of the Inquisition. Thus delaying the release of the finished engine to 1961 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 The first working model was unvieled by Gallileo in 1564 - however Galileo's championing of Copernicanism was controversial within his lifetime. The geocentric view had been dominant since the time of Aristotle, and the controversy engendered by Galileo's opposition to this view resulted in the Catholic Church's prohibiting the advocacy of heliocentrism as potentially factual, because that theory had no decisive proof and was contrary to the literal meaning of Scripture. Galileo was eventually forced to recant his heliocentrism and spent the last years of his life under house arrest on orders of the Inquisition. Thus delaying the release of the finished engine to 1961 Superb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Yep, And remarkably Stick, Pig, Bottom, and Grease free arguement too Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 it the lot of yous... RECANT! BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE! On a serious note, as Nick says Jeremy J. Fearn is a good man to talk to. And he WILL actually talk to you. I had a lengthy long distance phone convo with him when I still had notions that I could get a TdV6 running in my Classic. Jeremy has done a lot of pioneering (so I'm told) in terms of comp. diesels. Talk to him about the BMW 6 pot. And also why not consider the Td5? Once you have it in bring it to J.J.F. and he'll make it produce something like 195bhp and over 300lbs/ft torque. Certainly kicks the carp out of a standard 3.9 V8. I was talking to a chap with this mod on his D90 and he swore that along with a GKN overdrive it was tipping 2500rpm at 90mph on the big roads. Hell yeah I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav- Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 the intention for the time being is to replace the v8 engine thats cheap and reliable. The td5 is a nice engine, but it expensive to purchase. I need to get a 4x4 for period so that i can get the trayback on the road. a 200tdi or 300tdi at the moment are quiet reasonable, and if i can tweak it even the better. I am not into spending loads on an engine, i dont have that much too spend. I do however like the idea of trying to get the max out of an engine and still keep it reliable, so i will put in instruments to protect the engine, like a EGT etc. there is a guy with a izuzu 2.8 diesel in the rear of a disco in the awdc. when i saw it i was very very impressed. this is the description on awdc site of it The engine is an Isuzu 2.8TD with a TD5 turbo, oil cooler and an Allisport intercooler. looking at troopers on ebay, how best to mate one to an lt230?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callum Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 looking at troopers on ebay, how best to mate one to an lt230?? an adaptor ring and any land rover gearbox of your choice. www.engineconversions.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.