Offroad Toy

[Corrode Finger]

Probably about to get flamed for this, but, as several people on here know, i have a thing for Range Rovers....... not that i can buy a good one mind, well not least in the Classic shape anyway!! The classic ..."oooh its rusty!!!"

I happened to notice that P38's are getting rather cheap..... nearly at the play day level..... well not the the bottom end that the Disco's seem to occupy admittedly..... but in the £2 - 3k mark!!

Would it be good, or has anyone done it yet, gone out and bought a P38, V8 or Derv, and used it as a toy yet?

Bit of laning, play day, nothing totally extreme mind?

What would the pitfalls be, before i get carried away, and make a mistake( this is just hypothetical mind)

[FridgeFreezer]

Talk to Moo, he's been running his P38 4.6 for ages as dual purpose family car / plaything and seems to get on OK.

Traction control, 4.6 and air suspension sounds like a winning combo to me.

[sheeppimp]

you fancy a p38 based hybrid then?

[Jen]

See JU's answer - you come to Shire's days don't you!? It's been to Tom's Farm, 7Sisters, several punch challenges, it's a heavy old beast but gets around as good as most B)

Moo loves his P38 and always comments about how it's suprisingly easy to work on. I've seen some pics of a bobbed version somewhere...

[Guest diesel_jim]

No reason why they shuouldn't be used for a toy.... after all, they were designed to be used off road.

i've seen that bobtail on the intraweb somewhere, looked quite tidy.

[Corrode Finger]

It would have no other purpose other than being a toy, got a 2.0 car for daily duties, its cheaper to feed, so i was really wondering what they were like for reliability, rust, which is the classics problem now, and how likely they would be to throw electrickery wobblies etc!!

Just that you dont see many offroaded, most seem to still be 'cars'!!

Also can they easily be fitted up with muds, ie with disco rims etc, etc?

It also the fact that they are a bit 'alien' in soo much as nobody seems to do much with them etc?

I geuss any ecu probs can be 'solved' with MS etc?

[FridgeFreezer]

You should try searching on here - there was a chap (I forget his name) who ran a P38 in winch challenges etc., was at the first Slindon one with DarthDicky.

Electricals are mostly unscary, as you say MS can take care of the engine, although the BECM has several known issues - you may be able to work round them or remove the BECM but you'd need to work out how everything works and then engineer a way round it.

[TSD]

Strangely I've been having similar thoughts, after spotting a couple of 4.0s in the autotrader. The best bit has to be that the electronics scares off everyone else

The bobtail seen on the web is probably the one built by Maddison 4x4, and on their website in the gallery section.

[Mark90]

You should try searching on here - there was a chap (I forget his name) who ran a P38 in winch challenges etc., was at the first Slindon one with DarthDicky.

SteveG.

He has a 90 now though, whatever that says.

[q-rover]

If you have access to fabricating equipment then go for it.

If not it gets damn expensive just finding rudimentary armour for one.

But as it is a toy, looks may not be too important.

Bearmach have started selling some bits, diffguards, longer shocks.

It is quite easy to work on and the few faults there are, are well documented on

RangeRover.net forum.

EAS is very serviceable but unlike coils, if you don't take charge of a problem

straight away, then it can throw it's toys eventually meeaning more expensive

repirs, faultcode clearing, etc.

Other faults are heater core, heater O-rings, HVAC distribution motors, strange happenings

with low battery/ charging, etc

[v8bertha]

Paul,

Both Moo and Richard have P38's. Both have the same problems with low battery's. Seems that the alarm goes into sleep mode but wakes up whenever other key fobs are around. This wakes up the whole BECM. Over a period of a week or so this flattens their batteries.

So if you are thinking about having one as a toy, this may be one thig you'd probably want to fool the BECM into thinking is still there after you've chopped all the wires and stuff

As jen says, Moo had taken his loadsa places and he loves it. The door seals don't leak, its amazingly confy and for such a big old beasty they are very capable off road.

Do it! B)

[FridgeFreezer]

Moo has recovered a certain Camel 110 at Seven Sisters too

[Jen]

Moo has recovered a certain Camel 110 at Seven Sisters too

True! And several 90's and Disco's in several locations.

Paul, take a closer look at Moo's - his too is just an off-road toy/expedition vehicle. It's got muds, rock sliders and a winch/winch bumper. It's funny, too many people just give it a quick glance... but when you look into it it's a pretty B) vehicle. Apparently the electrics are pretty easy... but then I know nothing about electrics!

I think you might have trouble finding out about rust issues etc. as there's not that many being used as toys yet.

[sheeppimp]

Rust issue's easy - Paul, if you buy one it will be extremely rusty

[Corrode Finger]

Jen,

I have seen Moo's going about, its a blue one, IIRC, and yes it is just one of those RR's that you look at and don't register!!

Rust..... as the early ones are 1995, thats 13yrs, so i suspect that if they do a classic rr or disco party trick, then they would be known of by now, or knowing my luck with Rangeys, i will be the first to buy one needing full cills, a posts, footwells, rear xmember etc etc!!

[David Sparkes]

"Seems that the alarm goes into sleep mode but wakes up whenever other key fobs are around. This wakes up the whole BECM. Over a period of a week or so this flattens their batteries. "

IF this is an accurate summary, it's a pity.

I say IF, not because I think V8bertha is telling porkies, but because without words from the owners we don't know what the current state of affairs is. Battery Drain can be caused by other faults, not just the most high tech answer that can be thought of.

I say it's a pity because the 'BECM awakening' cause and potential cures are well known, so it seems a pity to let the faults persist.

The cause is not other fobs, it's interferance from other sources, the most likely of which is Domestic Weather stations with wirelessly connected outside units. Sometimes the external Weather Station can be moved, but otherwise a possible cure is to disconnect the 38A receiver from the aerial, and accept that the 38A Handset will only work in very close proximity to the car. The more expensive but better cure is to upgrade the receiver, but as this costs over £100 a lot of people find it too expensive.

They will spend thousands on a winch bumper, plus winch, plus rope, plus rocksliders, etc, but that's another issue.

Cheers

[Corrode Finger]

Rust issue's easy - Paul, if you buy one it will be extremely rusty

Cheers Mate!!!!!!

Just thought, how 'basic' are basic P38's..... i geuss that the irritating factor will be all the toys, seats, windows, climate control, etc, etc!!

Having seen them at 'traders' for £2500, i am guessing that a PX value on one is around £1k, if its going to be a toy, cosmetics are not a major problem.

Against my better logic, this appeals!!!

And as sheeppimp says, i have a P38 donor for another hybrid build!!

[David Sparkes]

"how 'basic' are basic P38's."

Certain > No Traction Control, 2 pin diffs instead of 4 pin rear, no headlight wash/wipe, no sound system Boom box, no CD changer, no navigation system, Alarm receiver prone to interferance, no Cruise Control, no side airbags, no headrest mounted entertainment system, no towbar, no Memory Seats or Mirrors.

Possible > No sunshine roof, AC + Heat, but no Climate Control, Cloth seats instead of Leather, manually adjusted seats, no heated seats (even if they are there, they will be broken).

And of course, only one Handset (Key Remote Fob); replacements are Dealer only. (Keys without the remote are a straight copy by 'anybody').

Rust? Brake pipes, along the rear axle and against RH chassis rail, about where the B pillar is.

Ally corrosion? Bottom edge of lower tailgate.

HTH :-)

[simon_s]

Theres a bobbed one for sale on eBlag at the moment...

[MogLite]

Ours is a road car - an 98 4.6HSE, but I've owned it for 5 years or so.

There are some foilbles, but once you understand the way they work - they are surprisingly logical, and easy to work on. Rust wont be a problem.

The alarm thing is true. If I park next to the house, the wireless internet keeps it awake, and flattens the battery in two days. I believe there is a modified reciever available from the dealers.

Make sure you get two keys, there are only 4 available, so once you've lost 3 - you are on borrowed time. They also cost ~£100 each

It must have a perfect battery - nothing less will do.

They like to be used regularly, our air suspension valves are a bit sticky if left for a few days.

Rovacom is great for getting/setting faults. But the new one - Rovacom Lite I believe is locked to a VIN number, so you can't share it amongst your mates. Its also got OBD-II for engine codes, but I've never had to use it.

Not sure you'd need Megasquirt, its already distributorless, and with coil-packs at the back of the engine, so should be fairly water resistant.

Hope it helps

Andy

[FridgeFreezer]

Not sure you'd need Megasquirt, its already distributorless, and with coil-packs at the back of the engine, so should be fairly water resistant.

This is true - although I'd point out the only part of Rog's MS install that failed was the RR coil pack, he's now using Ford ones also the RR one is £££'s.

[MJIbex]

No reason why they shuouldn't be used for a toy.... after all, they were designed to be used off road.

i've seen that bobtail on the intraweb somewhere, looked quite tidy.

One I saw at a few stages of build. Looked good apart from I don,t like the exterior part of the cage.

Bobbed P38A

Mark.

[Young bobtail Rhys]

how about this Clicky

[David Sparkes]

Sorry to keep bobbing up, but ...

"The alarm thing is true. If I park next to the house, the wireless internet keeps it awake, and flattens the battery in two days."

No, wireless internet (Wi-Fi) is not the cause, the frequencies used are very different. I did write this up in detail on some forum or other, but it seems more than 12 months ago and I can't recall where.

Miscellaneous domestic wireless functions are all based around the same frequency, so the 38A Security system could be affected by almost anything that boasts a wireless connection, Weather Stations, Door bells, Baby Monitors, Garage door openers, Driveway gate openers. These don't have to be on your property, they can also be on a neighbours property.

The system can also be swamped by strong emissions from industrial sources. My experience was when parking outside Milton Keynes Railway Station. I had to use the key to lock and unlock the car. I changed the receiver and the problem went away.

The current part number will be on Landywiki somewhere.

http://www.landywiki.co.uk/index.php?title...er_Interference

"Make sure you get two keys, there are only 4 available, so once you've lost 3 - you are on borrowed time. "

The keys are numbered 1 2 3 4, and when new, carried the appropriate label, but this falls off over time. The Handsets also had different colours. Any lost or broken handset can be replaced by it's own number, but the problem was that owners had no idea which Handset they had, and I'm assured that two handset 2s won't work on the same car. In this case the safest advice was to buy a key 3 or 4, as these were not standard issue. For those cars with Memory Seats and Mirrors the standard issue of Handset 1 & 2 were called His and Hers, and had separate memories associated with them, such that the seat and mirrors moved to the correct position for the Handset that was used.

The two basic colours were Ash Grey and Black, and it is difficult to say which is which when you only have one key. I have both keys, and have developed a test that enables anyone to establish the colour of the Handset they have. This is written up, with pictures, on Rangie.com

http://www.rangie.com/articles_model.php?modelId=2 Look for "P38A Identifying your existing key fob."

Some Americans have reported that all keys are now supplied in the same colour, which is no great surprise, considering the car is obsolete, and Ford Accountants have been involved. On mine, I have engraved the number into the Handset case.

"Rovacom is great for getting/setting faults. But the new one - Rovacom Lite I believe is locked to a VIN number, so you can't share it amongst your mates."

Correct-ish in principle, but not in words.

The original Rovacom was a big Tablet style affair, suitable to withstand Trade use.

It was augmented by the cheaper Rovacom Lite, just an aluminium Server + a little black box. The Customer provided a laptop PC for the screen and keypad. Aimed at the DIY market, although also used by small Independants. Physically this is more fragile than the Rovacom.

The Hardware is obsolete.

The software modules were and are the same, and are shared with the latest offering, so are still supported today.

There have been several alternative packages brought out, but to skip over a couple and end with the current offering, the Faultmate MSV.

This is a single box, fits between the OBDII socket and your PC. It has a plug in Licence Module with 3 identities in it, each of which can be set up in a different style.

Joe, Bill, and Fred have shared the cost of the MSV.

Joe has bought one module, for the 38A EAS, this can be used on Multiple vehicles, and he intends to buy additional modules later.

Bill has bought all the modules for his current 38a, and has saved money by having these licenced to a Single Vevicle.

Fred has bought all the Modules for his L332, licenced for Multiple Vehicles.

I've made up this example just to give an idea.

Note that by buying multiple licence modules, more that three people can share the same Faultmate, although I always warn of the danger of the Faultmate being 40 miles away at your mates house when you NEED it.

To read the manufacturers hyperbole go to http://blackbox-solutions.com/docs/faultmate_msv.pdf

Some functions have more than one possible module (SRS is an example). To get easy to follow guidance on selecting them, plus guidance on dealing with Blackbox Solutions, read the Rovacom Section on LandyWiki.com from beginning to end. You may have to re-read it, but you may also decide that if getting your head round the content is more than you want to cope with, then it's a cheap lesson learned. Better than buying a car you end up not wanting.

http://www.landywiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Main_Page

Note that some independant spirits who meet on the Rangerovers.net 38A forum have created some free software that, with the purchase of cable and plugs (and laptop), allows you to interact with the EAS, to the extent of clearing faults and adjusting ride heights.

If anyone does buy a 38A as a road + weekend warrior, I suggest you combine the service replacement of the suspension airbags with an upgrade to the longer Arnott GenIII bags. Even with the standard shock absorbers the longer bags enable you to increase the Extended ride height, so improving the Ramp and Breakover angles.

I don't see any point of thinking about Megasquirt on this car, unless the technical challenge you want is to match MS into the Security and Automatic Gearbox electronics.

HTH

[nickm]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1996-Land-Rover-Rang...1QQcmdZViewItem

was u on about this 1