yellow Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Bought a 1986 110 with a nice V8. All is well (period rust, but good chassis) but the steering itself is extremely light. I have never experienced steering this light on a 110. It is barely manageable on high speeds, as it reacts immediately and quite strongly. Slow maneuvering is good and the steering does its work there, but only one second of attention loss could potentially be fatal, especially at higher speeds. Anyone a clue on how to make the steering feel a bit more '110-like'? It's a standard 6 bolt box I am driving with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashtray Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 has it got the correct oil in it? i know different weights of oil can affect how light the steering is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 At speed problems could be swivel preload perhaps? Or maybe castor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defender dave Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Bought a 1986 110 with a nice V8. All is well (period rust, but good chassis) but the steering itself is extremely light. I have never experienced steering this light on a 110. It is barely manageable on high speeds, as it reacts immediately and quite strongly. Slow maneuvering is good and the steeing does its work there, but only one second of attention loss could potentially be fatal, especially at higher speeds.Anyone a clue on how to make the steering feel a bit more '110-like'? It's a standard 6 bolt box I am driving with hi i have the same problem with my one hope someone knows what it is i can turn my steering wheel with my finger and i got 12 inch wide tyers very light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patch1 Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 My 300Tdi is the same. It all started after I had my front nearside inner wheel bearing colaps. Replaced it, the load on the bearings are correct with no play but ever since its bin as twitch as hell. I did remove the two top bush bolts to remove the brake pipe braket and I wonder if something has moved as it alowed the swivel to drop, with a puddle of oil to show for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4444244 Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 missing steering damper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Tracking, steering damper, swivel preload. Also fitting longer springs without correction bars makes the steering very light. Faulty steering box might do this as well. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Assuming the rest of the steering is OK, bushes, joints etc. Then it's likely it's a box fault. Located within the valve body in the steering box is a torsion bar, it's job is to vary the amount of power assistance dependent on the effort applied to the steering wheel/resistance at the road wheels. At low speed more effort is needed to turn the wheel, the torsion bar twists and allows the valve to open further providing more power assistance. As road speed increases less effort is required, the torsion bar twists less, valve doesn't open as far, therefore less assistance. This provides assistance only as needed and "feedback" at the wheel. If the torsion bar is weakened or broken the box provides full power at all times as there is little to stop the valve opening fully. Failure is normally the result of heavy off roading and/or big tyres. Also if the steering swivel preloads are too tight the box will again provide excess assistance as the input effort at the wheel will be higher. The torsion bar is integral with the valve/worm assembly. Not really a diy job and exchange boxes are not a lot of money. Finally if you have this problem, the steering wont fail any further but as said, it's dangerous at speed. DON'T DRIVE IT ON THE PUBLIC ROAD UNTILL IT'S FIXED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Is it modified in any way - lift, springs, shocks, arms/links, steering damper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robhybrid Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Assuming the rest of the steering is OK, bushes, joints etc. Then it's likely it's a box fault.Located within the valve body in the steering box is a torsion bar, it's job is to vary the amount of power assistance dependent on the effort applied to the steering wheel/resistance at the road wheels. At low speed more effort is needed to turn the wheel, the torsion bar twists and allows the valve to open further providing more power assistance. As road speed increases less effort is required, the torsion bar twists less, valve doesn't open as far, therefore less assistance. This provides assistance only as needed and "feedback" at the wheel. If the torsion bar is weakened or broken the box provides full power at all times as there is little to stop the valve opening fully. Failure is normally the result of heavy off roading and/or big tyres. Also if the steering swivel preloads are too tight the box will again provide excess assistance as the input effort at the wheel will be higher. The torsion bar is integral with the valve/worm assembly. Not really a diy job and exchange boxes are not a lot of money. Finally if you have this problem, the steering wont fail any further but as said, it's dangerous at speed. DON'T DRIVE IT ON THE PUBLIC ROAD UNTILL IT'S FIXED. Are you talking from technical experiance? Have you ever seen any of these torsion bars fail? I have never seen any of these torsion bars break. I can see how a weakening of this bar could possibly result in lighter steering though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkk2 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Just a thought , has the power steering pump on the engine been changed? there are a few different types of pumps. As for the torsion bars I have offroaded trucks for a good while with oversized tyres, using a 4 bolt steering box the truck has been through the wars and the steering box never gave any trouble except leak out the lower seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 The vehicle is standard. Used to belong to the Staffordshire Police, then belonged to a aged gentleman farmer. This makes me believe that there are no mods. The engine was changed a couple of years ago, and thus a different pump might have been fitted, but both engines were LR standards, so again, I do not think this is it. I have crashed a 110 recently, and still have the front axle,and 6 bolt box out of that one. Once the wather warms up a bit,and it stays dry, I will swap the front axle and box out, complete with linkages, etc... Until then it will be back on my 1200 GSA to go back to work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSIIA Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Several other thoughts before condeming the power steering box: What tyres are you running, and at what pressures? Are any of the suspension bushes worn/damaged such that the suspension becomes a bit twitchy at speed? Could the pressure relief valve in the power steering pump have stuck closed, giving too high a pressure at the steering box and hence more assistance than required? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Are you talking from technical experiance?Have you ever seen any of these torsion bars fail? I have never seen any of these torsion bars break. I can see how a weakening of this bar could possibly result in lighter steering though. Yes, i am talking from technical experience. This was a known fault (weakening of the torsion bar) in the mid/late eighties, but not that common. I cant remember if both Adwest and Gemmer boxes where affected, in this case it's a Gemmer. I only ever saw one actually break. As for overpressure in the system, I'd say unlikely as if the relief valve was stuck shut you would have other symptoms, oil leaks, slipping belt and a tendency to stall the engine at full lock when idling. Also if you understand how the system works you'll see there is only limited pressure applied to the ram at lower steering wheel input effort, (higher road speed =less resistance to turn from the road wheels). If you hold the steering on full lock you'll hear the "hiss" as the relief valve lifts, if it's working. As i said, I make the assumption that the OP had, or would be able to check all the basics, joints, bearings, bushes etc, and in the absence of anything obvious was seeking other possibilities. Even the complete removal of the steering damper wont make much difference to steering effort much less make it "stupendously light". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantd5 Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 I had a total of 9 hour journey and made a distance of 606 kilometers. I deliberately wanted to get the oil pumping right through the system. My brother (co-pilot) complained of the steering being too sensitive. My PAS pump is an Adwest 4 bolt pump Which I got sent to me for 4 months ago. I have changed to new steering damper. I also changed the top swivel pin ,shims and bearings in the chrome swivel. I also changed the lower bearings and pin too. I did check on the preload too (4-7kg). My question is how "Stiff " must the steering be to avoid the " Stupendous Sensitivity"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamplayer Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 I had this problem on my 90 before I bought it. It turned out to be the steering box. The chap I bought it from fitted a reconditioned box(exchange I think ) and everything was fine and dandy and has been since. Even he had to admit the truck was extremely dangerous if driven with steering so light as it was.. Regards mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyv8 Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Assuming the rest of the steering is OK, bushes, joints etc. Then it's likely it's a box fault.Located within the valve body in the steering box is a torsion bar, it's job is to vary the amount of power assistance dependent on the effort applied to the steering wheel/resistance at the road wheels. At low speed more effort is needed to turn the wheel, the torsion bar twists and allows the valve to open further providing more power assistance. As road speed increases less effort is required, the torsion bar twists less, valve doesn't open as far, therefore less assistance. This provides assistance only as needed and "feedback" at the wheel. If the torsion bar is weakened or broken the box provides full power at all times as there is little to stop the valve opening fully. Failure is normally the result of heavy off roading and/or big tyres. Also if the steering swivel preloads are too tight the box will again provide excess assistance as the input effort at the wheel will be higher. The torsion bar is integral with the valve/worm assembly. Not really a diy job and exchange boxes are not a lot of money. Finally if you have this problem, the steering wont fail any further but as said, it's dangerous at speed. DON'T DRIVE IT ON THE PUBLIC ROAD UNTILL IT'S FIXED. correct me if im wrong but theres a little pin that can be knocked out on the shaft in the box that has this effect a trick used by some triallers to steer faster and quicker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomG Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 What's the tracking like? if there's too much toe-in then the vehicle will want to steer itsself off the road - the faster you go, the worse the effect. Park vehicle on a flat surface, steering central then run a bit of string tight round all four wheels, half way up each wheel (making sure it's not touching anything else). Adjust the trackrod so the wheels are parallel or toed very slightly (a few mm) out as this makes for safer handling - better self centering at speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomG Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Would be interested in these mods as my steering is a bit lazy - the power assistance seems to take a while to respond (even before hydro assist), once it catches up it's fine but it's pretty sluggish if you quickly throw the wheel one way then the other. This is on a 3-bolt box. I had a look through the Adwest (4-bolt) section of the Defender overhaul manual (Page 249 in the PDF), but can't see mention of a torsion bar. Part of me says this is best left alone though as i don't fully understand the workings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 Well, it's like this: When I have the vehicle parked on a hard surface, and the engine running, I can turn the wheel full lock to the right and then to the left with only the tip of my finger on the steering wheel. Usually I would only be able to do this with both hands, or maybe with one hand if I would be lucky. I will change the 6 bolt with another 6 bolt I have left over from the vehicle I crashed 3 weeks ago. That one was OK (until the crash). If the issue persists, I will probably swap the front axle off the crashed one, as that would be less work than open up the one that is under the vehicle now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 correct me if im wrong but theres a little pin that can be knocked out on the shaft in the box that has this effect a trick used by some triallers to steer faster and quicker Yes, basically it disconnects the torsion bar from the system. There is also a flow restricter that needs opening up to get the best reaction from the pump. Most definitely NOT something to be doing to a road going vehicle. You wont see the bar on any parts diagram as it's contained within the worm/valve assembly for which no parts, other than the seals are available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Changed the steering box yesterday and the steering feels normal now. Thanks for the help here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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