hobson Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I've just been given some tractor recovery eye's by the friend who's farm we're on and would like to fit them to the 110, they have a huge breaking strain so i know they'd be strong enough. we have a towbar fitted but i've been told not to use it for recovery, so i'd like to fit these eyes to the rear crossmember (i thought one on either side?) i'm also going to use some thick steel plate on the back of the crossmember as a giant washer to give more strength, but is there a best place to drill the crossmember? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clbarclay Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Tractor recovery eyes? I've never come across a dedicated recovery point on a tractor before, the normal hitches or round an axle is all I've used. Are they like large lifting eyes, a ring with a screw thread forged as one part? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobson Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Yes, looks like this picture, but the ones i have are a shorter thread, he said they were off a tractor, i said i wanted to use them for recovery and he said they'd be fine for that.... any ideas wheres best to fit them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobson Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 sorry, this picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Much better idea to get one of these: Equipe Recovery Eye Eye bolts need to be very big to have the required capacity and have a big enough hole in them for a decent shackle or hook. Also, they concentrate any twisting force on one small point without front and rear spreader plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrover598 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 and he said they'd be fine for that.... An M20 version of those is only rated at just over a ton, so even a pair is way under the 3.5ton rated tow hitch! If you want to fit them though, i'd suggest just inboard of the chassis legs, with a crush tube in the cross member and the rear spreader plate welded down the side of the chassis leg as well as to the back of the cross member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Don't use eye bolts for recovery, especialy as you don't know the history or rateing of the things. They're designed for lifting things and you shouldn't pull sideways on the eye. IMO use of this sort of thing is an accident waiting to happen. A properly fitted tow bar should be adequate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobson Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Hmmm, was going to use some plate front and rear to spread the load, i know the crossmember on it's own isn't that thick. as far as the eyes, the farmer said he'd used similar on farm machinery which is generally very heavy and they were fine. however, having heard all the feedback i might look at something else, i remeber on my last 90, an ex-military one, it had some large shackles through holes in the chassis rails at the back, would that be a better bet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobson Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 -and how big would a shackle have to be to go round the chassis rail? anyone know how thick they are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 You mean Jate rings. Most L/R suppliers will do them, either the proper forged ones or the welded up copies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobson Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 the ones on my 90 were D shackles.... isn't there a difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 the ones on my 90 were D shackles.... isn't there a difference? Are you sure they weren't just forged Jates like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 my chassis is 80mm wide, discovered my accident, and now convinient as 80mm is a standard size steel tube section - handy to know if ever theres another straight section needs replacing on the top or bottom of the chassis rail! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobson Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yep, i'm a pudding, i thought jate rings were the square type Rebel 4x4 do, didn't know about the forged type! obviousley it was these that were fitted to my old 90. i think i'll play it safe and get a couple of the forged type rather than use the towing eyes. thanks for the feedback though everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazelle Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Yep, i'm a pudding, i thought jate rings were the square type Rebel 4x4 do, didn't know about the forged type! obviousley it was these that were fitted to my old 90. i think i'll play it safe and get a couple of the forged type rather than use the towing eyes. thanks for the feedback though everyone If your truck is similar to a TD5 Defender 90 then you may find the fuel tank in the way at the back. (I don't know the configuration of the others). It is worth checking before you splash out I still have not put on the two I bought for the back for that reason. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 I've just been given some tractor recovery eye's by the friend who's farm we're on and would like to fit them to the 110, they have a huge breaking strain so i know they'd be strong enough. we have a towbar fitted but i've been told not to use it for recovery, so i'd like to fit these eyes to the rear crossmember (i thought one on either side?) i'm also going to use some thick steel plate on the back of the crossmember as a giant washer to give more strength, but is there a best place to drill the crossmember? Not sure why you were told not to use the towbar, It is much stronger than some accessory tow points. If it is a standard landrover fitment, it is more than strong enough for heavy recovery. The towbar and standard ISO towball are rated at 3,500kg. This is a working load which means it has a breaking strain of at least 3 times that. The reality is that it can cope with much much more than that. If you have a standard towball fitted, and want a bit more 'security' for the rope, fit a 3,500kg pin hitch/tow jaw or combined ball and pin hitch it its place. If you use jate rings, you will have to use a bridle to attach a recovery rope to both rings to spread the load and have to get down in the mud to attach it. A simple 3,500kg pin hitch/tow jaw on the tow bar is much more convenient. Hope this helps, Regards, Diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 The 2 M16 bolts on a standard hitch have a yield strength (assuming 8,8 grade) of just over 20 tonnes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Ah, but what about the combined bending & shear capacity of the shank of the tow ball just beneath the ball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Ah, but what about the combined bending & shear capacity of the shank of the tow ball just beneath the ball? Listen you, its p*ssing down outside and I'm not going out in it to caliper the swan-neck of me tow ball . Anyway, you'd need a quick FE stress analysis job doing on it, and that's too hard I haven't got a clue there are better minds on the forum than me. You could always look the design standard up in British Standard BS AU113L 1979 or ISO Standard 1103. From a "failure modes" point of view, I would have thought that the plastic failure of the standard "plough" hitch plate (which is only a bit of bent 6mm plate) would come first, assuming you mount it there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redneck Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 M20 collared eyebolts have a WORKING load rating of 2860kg, for angled loads use 60% of the working load rating. However the WORKING load ratings are 1/4 of the deformation load and 1/5 of the breaking load. Therefore an angular load of 2860x0.6 = 1716kg deformation is at 1716x4=6864kg or a breaking load of 1716x5= 8580kg. I doubt some of the manufactured recovery points are rated that high. Obviously the load rating depends on the point it is attached to, but I think a jate ring would struggle with an 8.5 ton load. Just my opinion. But I do think there is some confusion regarding lifting load ratings and towing load ratings. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Fit a 3.5t pin hitch instead, virtual straight pull then, and easier/safer to attach strops/winch hooks to, especially with the R-clip in place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Cant go wrong with a pin hitch, safe and simple, plus you can then tow trailers with a ring hitch wich is always handy. Of couse you could put a NATO hook on, you know your orite then asuming the crosmember stays intact. Will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Yep, i'm a pudding, i thought jate rings were the square type Rebel 4x4 do, didn't know about the forged type! obviousley it was these that were fitted to my old 90. i think i'll play it safe and get a couple of the forged type rather than use the towing eyes. thanks for the feedback though everyone The forged ones are the original military spec items, and the welded lash-ups out of bar and rod are the cheap copies, rather than the other way around. I'd sooner trust the forged ones if I had to use a JATE ring, though I'd sooner not get muddy knees As for the numbers - if you have to worry seriously about 8 or 20 or 103.9 ton loads on the recovery point then you need to check the connection between the seat and the steering wheel is tight and adjust the technique slightly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will4x4 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 i would just bolt a nato hitch and be done with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 ^^^^ Erm "Yes and No" Yes, as in fab bit of HD kit, never break one of dem and the "No" ? Erm, as in not as I found at a drive round day recently a NATO unit connected ( with no plate on the rear) AND.... held together with "Freeded stuudin' from B&Q Mate well cheap" I made him 'remove it' (After an arguement too ) Terrifying thought that someone could have connected up onto it Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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