angusb Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 I took the 110 for its MOT yesterday and it failed on a couple of small things, one being that the brake lines were corroded in two places: and here The tester then told me to sand back the corrosion and if the lines were not too pitted I could apply some grease to them and put it back in for a retest, if they were too pitted I would need to replace them. So the question is should I replace them or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 So the question is should I replace them or not? They're not as bad as mine were when they failed the MOT, but have you checked all of them? I'm a little surprised at the tester's comments, as good brakes are kind of important. For the price, I'd say yes, and you can use it as excuse to do the master and slave cylinder seals and replace the brake fluid while you're there. You'll find not a little discussion on what to replace them with, but copper ain't so bad (Automec kits are easy) - cue shouts of "Cupro-nickel" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 I would replace them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick w Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 replace them there pretty important and its a nice rewarding job too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreadnought110 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 i would replace them for peace of mind but it shouldn't have failed its mot the book says if you (the tester) thinks that the sidewalls are corroded over 50% of the original thickness then you can fail it if you are not sure you pass and advise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 They look bad enough to me to have failed. That part of the braking system is a common corrosion area. it shouldn't have failed its mot the book says if you (the tester) thinks that the sidewalls are corroded over 50% of the original thickness then you can fail it if you are not sure you pass and advise... I don't understand that at all - he thinks they may be bad, so has said as much, although he should have either failed, or passed and advised. If one of the rust pits starts to leak - you have no brakes. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Is your life or more importantly somebody else's life important to you ? Replace the whole bang shoot of brake pipes including the flexi pipes. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreadnought110 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 the mot is a complete waste of time i had a vehicle that the brake pipe burst during the brake test you couldn't fail it beacause the brake pipe was behind a cover so you couldn't see it and that could have been life threatning!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trt1617 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 the mot is a complete waste of time i had a vehicle that the brake pipe burst during the brake test you couldn't fail it beacause the brake pipe was behind a cover so you couldn't see it and that could have been life threatning!! i agree with above comment and im an mot tester and have had visable brake pipes that looked in better nick than the above ones burst during a brake test. after all your trying to get the wheels to lock by pressing the pedal as hard as you can and how often do you atcually do that while driving down the road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Brake pipe corrosion can be quite difficult to assess. Sometimes it's obvious, but I've had pipes that looked ok disintigrate when disturbed and failed pipes that didn't seem that bad when they were off. You can't make an exact measurement of the corrosion. But... It's brakes, even if you only get an advisory I'd still replace them. As to the comments about hidden pipes, yes plenty of vehicles have pipes routed in such a way that you can't inspect them all, Merc I tested the other week had plastic covers over the whole underside of the vehicle, you couldn't see anything. 3 years old, so first MOT, but god knows what that'll be like in 10/15 years time. The argument is it's the exposed sections that corrode, Mmm, yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 even if you only get an advisory I'd still replace them. I'd like to second that for ALL advisories. MOT testers get a nice relaxed opportunity to have a thorough, structured crawl round you vehicle: how often (seriously) do you do that, with a critical eye? I've smarted at some issues raised (slightly delaminated number plate? ), but IMHO the fails and advisories are reasonable, verging on helpful. As previous posters have said, what price your life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I'd like to second that for ALL advisories. MOT testers get a nice relaxed opportunity to have a thorough, structured crawl round you vehicle: how often (seriously) do you do that, with a critical eye? I've smarted at some issues raised (slightly delaminated number plate? ), but IMHO the fails and advisories are reasonable, verging on helpful. As previous posters have said, what price your life? Except the one time, when I was living in Swindon, the rear leaf springs on my 109 failed, because they had broken, according to the MOT man. Of course they hadn't, the poor guy had mistaken where the helper spring nested into the foldedunder part of the spring above it! Springs are still on the vehicle, 12 years later and have just passed their second DOE commercial test. Anyway: Replace All the pipes with any corrosion. Use Cupro-nickel as it doesn't work harden and break. If you are stuck for funds then DIY, but you could get a kit. I prefer DIY as I've found the kits to have the pipes too long. It's not worth it to skimp on brakes. And if you do skimp and then go and crash the car, it is US that have to pay higher insurance premiums. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Can I suggest too, if replacing pipes with copper or Kunifer, you get some nice brass ends from Frosts or Automec if you ever want to be able to undo them again. Its the difference between an anxious half hour and a relaxed ten second pull on the spanner. Regards Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwcooper Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Genuine LR brake pipes come pre-bent with all the fittings and flares ready done, which makes life even easier and they dont cost that much either so its worth replacing them. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angusb Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 It seems to be worth pricing up the tools I'll need to do the job myself for a couple of reasons. Firstly the MicroCat picture of the brake lines for a 1988 110 shows that the T-piece that splits the front brake system into left and right is the other way up to mine, so mine has probably already been replaced by someone who has made up new pipes which are different to the standard ones. This means either I replace the whole lot or make them up myself as they will be different to standard. Secondly it seems the price of replacements will be similar to the price of a flaring kit and the necessary pipe (I can get copper-nickel pipe for £1 a foot from a shop down the road). Any recommendations for a flaring kit that will do copper-nickel pipe? I was thinking of the type that goes in a vice if that would be cheaper than a handheld one. And are the brake lines on a 1988 Defender going to be 3/16" or a metric size? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantd5 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Cats have 9 lives!! Humans can in extreme cases escape some accidents. Get the pipes changed and save the passenger and your life!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluespanner Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I dont get it, if the pipes failed the test, there is no option to sand or grease them, they must be replaced. If they were advised upon, you may do what you like with them. I think it is very poor for the tester to fail them then tell you to clean them up and grease them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angusb Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 After a good read through some previous posts on the subject of flaring tools and what kind of pipe to use I have decided to go for cupro-nickel pipe and one of these: Clarke flaring tool and pipe cutter I thought it seemed like a good idea to get a cutter as well as when I've cut copper pipes for plumbing jobs you get a much better seal on compression fittings when you have a good clean cut from a pipe slice. Thanks guys, the advice is much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angusb Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 I need to replace the long front brake pipe that goes from the T-piece on the driver's side to the passenger side flexi/caliper on my 110. What do I need to remove to replace it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 A point my normal MOT tester made a while ago about advise notes, they are now all recorded in the data base. If and advice note is issued, nearly but not quite bald tyres for instance, and you do not do anything then 6 months later with now illegally bald tyres you cause and accident the fact you were warned but didn't act can be brought up and any charges or fines maybe increased. Always act on advice notes they are for your benifit, depending on the advice the action doesn't need to be immediate but "in good time" or further advice inspection maybe got. On this issue brakes are kind of important so I am glad to see you have decided to change them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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