New product for discerning winch users.

[roguevogue]

Now that the EDR (European Design Registration) is applied for I can talk publically about the new air operated freespool that I have been using.

Developed in conjunction with X-Eng, the Delta-Tek freespool for Warn 8274 is a completely self contained freespool system, intended to be a direct replacement for the standard drum.

Key things that the drum offers are a reduced diameter to increase capacity or mechanical advantage, stainless ball bearing with hard anodised adaptor to replace the plastic end plate bearing and of course selectable from the cab freespool.

Will also be available in extended (+3") length for those who need a long one.

James and I have been using prototypes for the last year or so and have had some really good results, we won the Slindon round of the Howlin Wolf outright last year despite retiring an hour early.

Retail price will be from £399 inc. VAT.

Supplied as standard without pneumatic valve, although several options are available, both mechanical and solenoid. You could use your spare ARB channel if you have one.

[Ian M]

awesome piece of kit, works really well!

[simonr]

This really is a nice bit of engineering - that Nick & I are very proud of. The clutch mechanism which is entirely enclosed inside the drum along with the pneumatic actuator was designed and analysed on the CAD - before being tested on competitions by Nick, Ian and one or two others to 'fine tune' the design.

The clutch mechanism is strong enough for everything a twin motor can throw at it and beyond. It's made from some fairly exotic grades of steel - the kind of thing you'd be pleased to have a half-shaft made from, combined with custom heat treatment to ensure long life.

Nick & Delta-Tek are going to be sharing a stand with X-Eng at Billing to do 'Show & Tell' (and maybe sell the odd one!) and I believe he's going to be demonstrating it in the Arena throughout the weekend.

Nick - when do I get mine?

Si

[Holyzeus]

Very smart, look forward to seeing it work in the flesh

[Rightfoot]

Have to agree, an awesome piece of kit that works really well.

[Dave W]

Where/when can I buy one ?

[elbekko]

It's made from some fairly exotic grades of steel - the kind of thing you'd be pleased to have a half-shaft made from, combined with custom heat treatment to ensure long life.

Special F1-heat-treated Maraging 300?

(Sorry Lara, couldn't resist )

[roguevogue]

Where/when can I buy one ?

If all goes to plan you will be able to get one from West Mids 4x4 from Monday.

This is dependent on all the bits coming together tomorrow.

[roguevogue]

Special F1-heat-treated Maraging 300?

(Sorry Lara, couldn't resist )

Sorry, i'm already married.

[simonr]

Special F1-heat-treated Maraging 300?

Actually it's Flora low fat Margarine Something along those lines except better suited to the clutch arrangement.

As you can imagine, the torque it has to transmit is significant - so although the profile is important to minimise the stress, the material choice and heat treatment are critical. We'll keep this close to our chest as unless you have a handy mass spectrometer and electron microscope (to look at the crystalline structure) - it makes it hard and expensive to copy.

Si

[Dave W]

If all goes to plan you will be able to get one from West Mids 4x4 from Monday.

This is dependent on all the bits coming together tomorrow.

Excellent, I'll keep an eye on the site on Monday

[general-confusion]

very interested as I have early twin motor winches and have no space for the bulkier gigglepin air freespool bottom end how much do the air soleniods cost ?

[GBMUD]

how much do the air soleniods cost ?

Lifted from another forum:

Std length is £399, long drum, ie. +3", £449

Add to that a manual pneumatic valve kit for £40 or a solenoid valve kit for £50. You don't need either of these if you have a spare ARB solenoid.

Chris

[roguevogue]

As from today, available from Ian at West Mids 4x4.

[Bush65]

This really is a nice bit of engineering - that Nick & I are very proud of. The clutch mechanism which is entirely enclosed inside the drum along with the pneumatic actuator was designed and analysed on the CAD - before being tested on competitions by Nick, Ian and one or two others to 'fine tune' the design.

The clutch mechanism is strong enough for everything a twin motor can throw at it and beyond. It's made from some fairly exotic grades of steel - the kind of thing you'd be pleased to have a half-shaft made from, combined with custom heat treatment to ensure long life.

Nick & Delta-Tek are going to be sharing a stand with X-Eng at Billing to do 'Show & Tell' (and maybe sell the odd one!) and I believe he's going to be demonstrating it in the Arena throughout the weekend.

Nick - when do I get mine?

Si

Actually it's Flora low fat Margarine Something along those lines except better suited to the clutch arrangement.

As you can imagine, the torque it has to transmit is significant - so although the profile is important to minimise the stress, the material choice and heat treatment are critical. We'll keep this close to our chest as unless you have a handy mass spectrometer and electron microscope (to look at the crystalline structure) - it makes it hard and expensive to copy.

Si

I like nearly everything that I can see - well done all involved. I am very tempted to purchase one for a project I have here, when I get to the winch stage.

But I cringe when looking at the use of O-rings for piston seals. This is very amateurish and out of character with the rest of the advanced design/tech - this feature scores very low marks from me. Were conventional pneumatic piston rings and bearing components as normally used and proven in industrial actuators (e.g. quad rings and glyde rings) ever considered?

[simonr]

But I cringe when looking at the use of O-rings for piston seals. This is very amateurish and out of character with the rest of the advanced design/tech - this feature scores very low marks from me. Were conventional pneumatic piston rings and bearing components as normally used and proven in industrial actuators (e.g. quad rings and glyde rings) ever considered?

"very amateurish" is a bit harsh. The 'O' rings were quite deliberate and I don't think there was much amateurish about the design or testing process. We consulted with a seal specialist who also gave the design their blessing.

I would use a more complex seal if either the pressure or the force requirement were higher. Or if the fit tolerance, or concentricity were not as good. For this application, a double O ring seal is a pretty good solution once you have an overview of the other design considerations.

The O rings are submerged in oil in a clean environment and only have to compress a small spring so the loading is low. The cylinder bore is to a high tolerance as are the piston 'O' ring grooves. Lastly, the O ring material is designed for this type of application.

In many circumstances I would agree with you - but it's not as simple as O rings being a bad solution on every occasion.

Si

[yella 90]

I like nearly everything that I can see - well done all involved. I am very tempted to purchase one for a project I have here, when I get to the winch stage.

But I cringe when looking at the use of O-rings for piston seals. This is very amateurish and out of character with the rest of the advanced design/tech - this feature scores very low marks from me. Were conventional pneumatic piston rings and bearing components as normally used and proven in industrial actuators (e.g. quad rings and glyde rings) ever considered?

so are you calling the gigglepin winches amateurish aswel then as the piston on them is sealed with 0-rings

[Lara]

Sorry, i'm already married.

so you saying that the thought of me and heat treated Margarine is not one you would consider

Bitch!

Lara

[roguevogue]

so you saying that the thought of me and heat treated Margarine is not one you would consider

Bitch!

Lara

I'm just more the KY type.

[Ian M]

We now has some drums in stock! Please give us a call on 07786699856 to discuss/order.

Our website is currently undergoing a full re-vamp so the drums wont appear on the website until the new site is launched.

ive been testing a prototype drum all year and its been faultless. These are definetly the way to go!

Regards

Ian

West Mids 4x4

[Bush65]

so are you calling the gigglepin winches amateurish aswel then as the piston on them is sealed with 0-rings

I don't know how the piston is sealed on the Gigglepin winches. I was only referring to one tiny aspect of another free spool design, and you are accusing me of implying Gigglepin winches are amateurish

ARB also use/used O-rings as piston seals, and as as static seals in their airlockers - guess what gives problems with airlockers and why I don't prefer them. (edit) spend a few occasions pulling diffs apart to replace a cheap O-ring, knowing that the issues will most likely return and you might grow to dislike O-rings used where they shouldn't be (end edit).

I have seen very many issues with O-rings in industrial use over the years. And who would have thought that a simple O-ring would cause a tragic loss of the lives of a space shuttle crew? - no amateurs involved there and I hasten to add I'm not suggesting any risk to people or equipment from these winch free spool mechanisms.

I look at the many things Simon has been involved with and applaud what and how he has executed solutions that have evaded others and saw it as a great pity that with so much thought and emphasis given to design and technical details/solutions to the other components/aspects of this free spool device that it has an obvious weak link, which also happens to be by far the cheapest component that would not exist if a standard industry (meaning industrial pneumatics) solution was employed.

What could be assumed (rightly or wrongly) to be not looking/learning from problems/solutions used in similar components in industrial pneumatics is what I labelled "very amateurish" - a bit harsh as Simon pointed out, but I had come to expect better from him.

O-rings are a poor choice for dynamic seals such as for pistons. Pneumatic actuators are made and used in their hundreds of thousands and they don't use o-rings for pistons seals for good reasons.

[TJ101]

Happy to say, Nicks freespool works well for me,,

the protype was easy to fit, great bit of kit !!

Thanks Nick

[yella 90]

I don't know how the piston is sealed on the Gigglepin winches. I was only referring to one tiny aspect of another free spool design, and you are accusing me of implying Gigglepin winches are amateurish

ARB also use/used O-rings as piston seals, and as as static seals in their airlockers - guess what gives problems with airlockers and why I don't prefer them. (edit) spend a few occasions pulling diffs apart to replace a cheap O-ring, knowing that the issues will most likely return and you might grow to dislike O-rings used where they shouldn't be (end edit).

I have seen very many issues with O-rings in industrial use over the years. And who would have thought that a simple O-ring would cause a tragic loss of the lives of a space shuttle crew? - no amateurs involved there and I hasten to add I'm not suggesting any risk to people or equipment from these winch free spool mechanisms.

I look at the many things Simon has been involved with and applaud what and how he has executed solutions that have evaded others and saw it as a great pity that with so much thought and emphasis given to design and technical details/solutions to the other components/aspects of this free spool device that it has an obvious weak link, which also happens to be by far the cheapest component that would not exist if a standard industry (meaning industrial pneumatics) solution was employed.

What could be assumed (rightly or wrongly) to be not looking/learning from problems/solutions used in similar components in industrial pneumatics is what I labelled "very amateurish" - a bit harsh as Simon pointed out, but I had come to expect better from him.

O-rings are a poor choice for dynamic seals such as for pistons. Pneumatic actuators are made and used in their hundreds of thousands and they don't use o-rings for pistons seals for good reasons.

your the one who said it was a amateurish way of making a piston seal.

i was simply stateing the fact as the gigglepin winches use the same system.as of yet ive never had a problem with my gp winch.

[robhybrid]

Hi looks interesting.

got a few questions.

I am treading carefully as I would like to consider myself a friend of Jim GP.

I too would have been interested in seeing a deviation from o rings(I have seen issues,I have replaced them a couple of times in my arb's)

does the spring give safety on?

has the (dog clutch) system got any means of holding its self in tighter the harder you winch?

are the 2 parts of the (dog)easily replaceable should they ever get damaged due to misuse?

and at what cost?

How are the components kept lubricated?

Should you need to replace components in the field is it easily possible?what tools would be needed? would you need to remove the winch to work on it?

What level of warranty is being offered?

Is there a part of winch drum accessible from the non motor end?I have fancies for attaching a brake disk aka Paul Whiteman.

or possibly even a 2nd hydraulic winch drive.

[Bush65]

your the one who said it was a amateurish way of making a piston seal.

i was simply stateing the fact as the gigglepin winches use the same system.as of yet ive never had a problem with my gp winch.

I'm guessing you don't know too much about how. when and appropriate details for design/use of O-rings, but are pretty quick to run others down

You did more than simply state what you claim. However I hope you continue to have a problem free winch.

I'm sure others have similar fortune, but that doesn't make it any more than a poor way to seal a pneumatic piston. Why do you think that two O-rings were used instead of one? Could it be because of the likelihood of one failing to seal after some use?

I noticed an active thread in the Defender forum about a common problem with an O-ring seal used for a static application in a LT230 transfer case - see partial quote below. Now anyone who knows much about correct use of O-rings will know that the configuration used in the LT230 is not preferred but used when unavoidable. Further if they are used for sealing pressure in this configuration they should be used in conjunction with a back-up washer - note these are static seals, not dynamic as for pistons.

Like so many others, my Defender had a slow drip from the transfer case and the cause was the usual O ring on the intermediate shaft. ...