Paul Humphreys Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 The rims in question are for off road use only don't forget.... and not technically approved for road use. AFAIK they are not DOT, TUV etc etc tested, so I doubt VOSA would be that interested in a rim that technically shouldn't be used on the road.... Ian It dose not say on the wheel makers site "Not for road use". Its a matter of safety. I was told by the maker that the wheels are rated at 750 kgs. So as a ex-army 110 is rated as 3050kgs I think they are not rated for then. But as mine is not an ex-army then it comes under the makers rating. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 Well I am not a metallurgist but Well I have someone who is, he has said he will look at the welds if I cut the wheel and sent the bits to him. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 I think the problem is that there is a point load on the rim, on five points, rather than the load spreaded around the entire rim, like a modular for example. on the other hand, I have seen people seriously hammering these wheels without problems. the 750 load rating on a 3050kg vehicle doesnt tell the full story: what was the axle load on te rear and front axle? Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 I think the problem is that there is a point load on the rim, on five points, rather than the load spreaded around the entire rim, like a modular for example.on the other hand, I have seen people seriously hammering these wheels without problems. the 750 load rating on a 3050kg vehicle doesnt tell the full story: what was the axle load on te rear and front axle? Daan I am not sure of that. I have just spoken to a man at VOSA and he is sending me some paper work to fill in. If anyone else has pictures of this happen on other wheels please can they let me have them. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 paul, i know the guy on the other forum offered to look at the welds of you cut out the damaged bit, but i wouldn't cut them up just yet, as you might need them in one piece later on. some high-res, close-up pictures might be good enough for someone to get a rough idea why they failed, but if and when the manufacturer agrees to take them back they'll probably want them in one piece. most universities with engineering or material science labs will be able to inspect them and tell you why they failed, the guy at our place retired last week unfortunately, and hasn't been replaced yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 paul, i know the guy on the other forum offered to look at the welds of you cut out the damaged bit, but i wouldn't cut them up just yet, as you might need them in one piece later on.some high-res, close-up pictures might be good enough for someone to get a rough idea why they failed, but if and when the manufacturer agrees to take them back they'll probably want them in one piece. most universities with engineering or material science labs will be able to inspect them and tell you why they failed, the guy at our place retired last week unfortunately, and hasn't been replaced yet. Thanks for that, I will not be cutting them up right away. I ask the makers not to weld the one wheel before they send it back to me, but was told its been done!!! But I still have the other with a crack in it. I am just waiting for the forms for VOSA to come before I do anything. The man on the phone was very intersted to hear about the cracks. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 i'm sure there must be one or two others lurking in peoples gardens, having been 'retired' due to cracking.... thinking about it, if they've just MIG welded over the crack, an not realy burned it in, the crack might show up if it's X-Rayed.... (X-ray inspection is a common technique that failure analysis labs use... like dye penetration) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Will, did you hear that from the manufacturer of the rims in question? I'm not sure that this statement is entirely accurate, although that is only my opinion based on my own experience of the setS that I have seen in need of replacing. It is my opinion that they should not be repaired, for the record. Sorry Nick, it seems like I'm missinformed this time! Up until this thread I only believed they had issues with the early rims. Apparently this is not the case. I'm now regretting advising my father to fit a set to his 110 a few months ago.... I think the idea that the manufacturers only believe these wheels have a 4 year life is appauling; not what you expect from a 'premium' product. Does this also mean that his racers only have a 4 year life before they have to be thrown away too?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 the guy at our place retired last week Didn't crack under the strain did he? Les (sorry about that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 I would guess from the manufacturer's point of view, as long as he's selling wheels at £100 a wheel and making money why would he be interested in increasing his manufacturing quality (and costs) to prevent failures. After all, I imagine most people would either chalk it up to abuse / one-off defect and either replace the wheel or change to another type. It's only because two have gone in exactly the same way on one vehicle that it's rung alarm bells. At the end of the day, the wheels have fans in some areas where the look / design / availability of custom wheels outweighs occasional problems and high prices. Personally I think they look quite cool on some vehicles but I'd never buy a set 'cos they're so flippin' pricey and there have been a lot of rumours on the grapevine about quality and after-sales service. Oh and: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 I would guess from the manufacturer's point of view, as long as he's selling wheels at £100 a wheel and making money why would he be interested in increasing his manufacturing quality (and costs) to prevent failures. After all, I imagine most people would either chalk it up to abuse / one-off defect and either replace the wheel or change to another type. It's only because two have gone in exactly the same way on one vehicle that it's rung alarm bells.At the end of the day, the wheels have fans in some areas where the look / design / availability of custom wheels outweighs occasional problems and high prices. Personally I think they look quite cool on some vehicles but I'd never buy a set 'cos they're so flippin' pricey and there have been a lot of rumours on the grapevine about quality and after-sales service. Oh and: PM sent. On another note, I will be at the LRW show. I will be doing the rounds so to speak. I will be asking the people selling these wheels whats the life span is. I just wonder what they will say? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Cheers Paul - posted for everyone's inspection: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Seriously not good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOR4x4 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 may have lasted longer if they had seen some paint at some point in there life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 may have lasted longer if they had seen some paint at some point in there life They have been painted, the top picture is with the wheel wet. The bottom picture is the second wheel, dry. Both wheels have "cracked" on the same spoke in the same way. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 What the pictures do not show is where the cracks have gone through the rim, not the spoke, thats why they let the air out. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 I'm not surprised the rim cracked - it will have failed in flexure due to concentrated cyclic point loading from the very stiff spoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 I'm no expert, but the weld looks thin and shallow to me. Not deeply penetrated type of shallow, but too fast type of shallow. The 'snot at the left hand end isn't in contact with the metal judging by the depth of the valley at that point. As the line of the weld goes to the right it improves slightly, but the weld itself gets thinner. I would have expeceted a larger weld than that in this application, with less of a valley where the weld becomes the rim itself. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 the 750 load rating on a 3050kg vehicle doesnt tell the full story: what was the axle load on te rear and front axle? The thing is, any wheel will be hugely over-engineered to cope with shock loadings. What is the instant load on a wheel rim on my Discovery if I hit a 6 inch deep pot hole at high speed? Quite a lot I would guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 True, but the mode of failure in that instance would be yield with noticable distortion. Although with a spoked wheel you might get a punching shear failure. Cracks are the domain of fatigue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Can you measure from the rim face to the centre face and tell me what it is? The ones I have are 110mm from rim to wheel centre.Paul They are 110mm from the outer rim to the inner of the bolt face, if that makes sense. Boxed as Colways, guaranteed for 4 years and a day B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 They are 110mm from the outer rim to the inner of the bolt face, if that makes sense. Boxed as Colways, guaranteed for 4 years and a day B) Can you PM me a price for 5 please? I take it they are 16 inch? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin_T Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 hi, a mate of mine used mach5 wheels but found that they cracked, he was only doing the odd lane. he uses wolf rims with centres turned round now, heavy but still going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 hi, a mate of mine used mach5 wheels but found that they cracked, he was only doing the odd lane.he uses wolf rims with centres turned round now, heavy but still going. Dose he still have pictures of where they cracked? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin_T Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 i'm pretty sure he scrapped them, i will ask him. they cracked in the same sort of place as your pictures as far as i recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.