Helmets and harnesses or not?

[jules]

If buying a helmet it is prudent to check it is Ok and to MSA regs Snell 2000 or better or SFI 31.1 31.2. or relevant BS.

We get a lot of motorcycle helmets sold as suitable for racing but not to Blue Book standard.

Check the Blue Book before buying, you won't get past scrutineering if its not right.

The EC mark is not suitable it must be the BS standard

there not as readily available as they used to be but you can find them with out costing earth

[FridgeFreezer]

Sorry if I'm being dumb but are we talking helmets at certain types of events, all events, or what?

My vote would be:

Average play day = no

Winch challenge = no unless you want to / need to in your vehicle (EG Moglite)

Speed event of any sort = yes

If you're gonna wear a lid in any non-speed event I wouldn't be too worried about certification beyond a CE mark, they're designed for far worse stuff than banging your head on the dashboard/rollcage and I've seen the cheap ones take some real beatings. In fact we once tested an old cheap one (FM) to destruction using go-karts, it took some pounding to crack it! (Think Top Gear car football but smaller )

[jules]

Sorry if I'm being dumb but are we talking helmets at certain types of events, all events, or what?

My vote would be:

Average play day = no

Winch challenge = no unless you want to / need to in your vehicle (EG Moglite)

Speed event of any sort = yes

If you're gonna wear a lid in any non-speed event I wouldn't be too worried about certification beyond a CE mark, they're designed for far worse stuff than banging your head on the dashboard/rollcage and I've seen the cheap ones take some real beatings. In fact we once tested an old cheap one (FM) to destruction using go-karts, it took some pounding to crack it! (Think Top Gear car football but smaller )

I think the this post is more about competitive national level challenges, not club level events.

At national level trucks should or shouldn't have

Cages to any configuration but complying with a set standard

Harnesses to a set standard

Helmets to a set standard

I feel they should be

and definitely not talking about play days

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[ltwt1981]

Really we are now discussing events run under MSA regs and requiring helmets overalls fire extinguishers and cages etc to Blue Book Regs.

You will also need an MSA license probably so will have a copy of the Blue Book.

Surprising how many people don't read the rega or even their own club regs for a particular event.

HBRO challenge we have people who get the documentation and don't read it.

Its the same at national level, however at the top end they employ lawyers to read the regs and pick holes in them, it then becomes fluid, the competitors find a loophole and the MSA close it and so on.

[jules]

Really we are now discussing events run under MSA regs and requiring helmets overalls fire extinguishers and cages etc to Blue Book Regs.

You will also need an MSA license probably so will have a copy of the Blue Book.

Surprising how many people don't read the rega or even their own club regs for a particular event.

HBRO challenge we have people who get the documentation and don't read it.

Its the same at national level, however at the top end they employ lawyers to read the regs and pick holes in them, it then becomes fluid, the competitors find a loophole and the MSA close it and so on.

But competitors will only need a

club-man B licence which is only (can't remember £15ish per year)

So me with my "National A off road" will be fine (I'm still sorting out upping that to a national A rally)

This will need t be introduce carefully not to dis-wade too many people thinking it too much like hard work.(its not! its easy to get a comp licence)

I would be guilty of not monitoring the blue book as closely as I should

Race overall are not practical for challenging as they are Dry-clean only the average winch bitch would destroy a pair every round.

I would also say their too restrictive (or do I just need to loss some weight )

[D9OSV]

A lot of the reason none of this is in place, is simply because it scares the living sh*t out of people....

They do not want the hassle of regs, helmets, etc.....

They just wana have fun (Cheers Cindy)

And we have to ask does it really matter if the helmet is MSA spec???????

So long as it's a helmet?????? of reasonable quality??????

The MSA is the a fine organization ....BUT

They don't half have some 'Dumb-F*ck' rules about offroading

And insurance is available from other sources

I wonder if we can just ask competitors to have helmets, rather than get the MSA involed??????

Just a thought

JIm

[FridgeFreezer]

If you're organising an event you can demand whatever you like as entry criteria.

As you say a lot of people can't be arsed with this sort of regulation. Granted vehicles need to be up to a safe standard but most off-roading is low-speed, anything that happens will happen slowly unless it's a bit of recovery gear snapping and there's no helmet that'd protect you from a towball going flying.

[ltwt1981]

I suspect most events are already under MSA permits so the rules already apply depending on the Class of event, Clubmans RTV, CCV or Comp Safari. Team recovery already needs helmets etc as I remember and the MSA may put Challenge events in the same bracket unless otherwise educated.

It is better to produce your own rules to suit the competition than have someone who does not understand foist their own interpretation on you.

[LR90]

I suspect most events are already under MSA permits so the rules already apply depending on the Class of event, Clubmans RTV, CCV or Comp Safari. Team recovery already needs helmets etc as I remember and the MSA may put Challenge events in the same bracket unless otherwise educated.

It is better to produce your own rules to suit the competition than have someone who does not understand foist their own interpretation on you.

Must admit I undrstood we were just talking challenge events and some rules would be good. Too stringent and we'll have no or few competitors and too lax and we risk someone being badly hurt and having little choice over the rules imposed.

We could start from scratch but which of the MSA rule groupings would be a pragmatic set to adopt? Don't mind £15 a year for a licence but if I also have to produce a medical cert every year and buy a flameproof suit that's going to reduce my (and I suspect others) enthusiasm as a very casual competitor in my DD.

Helmets sound good but I'd hope the rules would let me use a commonly available bike lid. Like Frdge says this is still far better than nothing and prob not a lot worse than some of the 'approved' lids. Cage is sensible too, always feel a bit vulnerable in mine with the mil roll hoop, but I don't know what MSA considers acceptable at different levels.

Carrying a fire extinguisher I have no bother with as long as I'm ok with the one I've already got Fully plumbed systems just sound to me like overly expensive for the one ortwo events I might do in a year.

So, not knowing the blue book would Clubmans RTV be a sensible basis?

[mwncidur]

Why not go along to a local comp safari event and look at the motors there and decide for yourself. I race in jeans and a jumper. rules state that arms and legs must be covered. no mention of fia overalls. as for helmets, an msa approved sparco helmet can be bought from demon tweeks for £55. the bike standard (gold?) is not permitted because it is not strong enough. it is worked out on a crushing system. bike are much lighter than a vehicle. people who race have their motors built to spec for very little money. you can spend as much or as little as you want.

[jules]

Why not go along to a local comp safari event and look at the motors there and decide for yourself. I race in jeans and a jumper. rules state that arms and legs must be covered. no mention of fia overalls. as for helmets, an msa approved sparco helmet can be bought from demon tweeks for £55. the bike standard (gold?) is not permitted because it is not strong enough. it is worked out on a crushing system. bike are much lighter than a vehicle. people who race have their motors built to spec for very little money. you can spend as much or as little as you want.

Spot on...

I have never own a set of fire proof overalls or had to submit a medical

And I won the British championships production class A in 04 and Class C in 05 and I have never had a medical...

This is not Touring car or Formula 1

It is designed to keep to cost down but as safe a necessary for the sport..

[steffUK]

Ok, after reading all this it seems that the majority believes it's a good idea to wear helmets on challenge events. On event's like Laosa (sp?) in Portugal, Croatia Trophy and the 8 days of OR magic in Oz it's mandatory already.

What about communication with you co driver then. It's hard enough to shout at him without the bitch wearing a helmet. If he now wears one he will never hear me :-)

Any suggestions on a good wireless intercom that works with a helmet? I know the Peltor system (Pit lane system), but are there any good alternatives?

cheers

stefan

[jules]

I'm loking into it already for rallying anyway..

the use in challenging was a after thought for me..

We googled it and loads of options came up some too dear but others are not so bad.

Bluetooth and radio etc.

[D9OSV]

I use pro radios with motor cycle head sets.......

They are very good......but

Wireless or blue tooth would be fantastic

Jim

[will_warne]

This is something I've been thinking about too. I think helmets are, in principal, a grat idea as long as you get the right sort of helmet. I think a (motor)bike helmet is too big, clumsey and heavy. You are, after all, getting thrown arround inside the cab. I think the job of the helmet it to stop impacts with nasty sharp corners and hard surfaces and because the speeds involved are small you don't need a hugely big, heavy helmet. I think even a bike helmet'll help most of the time although you look like a bit funny wearing them. I'm certainly going to look arround at some of the options as I'll be looking for a helmet that's as intrusive as possible

As far as intercoms go I've been given a contact by a friend who rallies seriously. They build custom systems and he reckons it'll be about £300 for a pair of headsets and radios built for the job (probably wireless, reasonably waterproof, good battery life etc). Not bad really. I've been on holiday so I haven't got in touch with them but when I do I'll report back.

Harnesses; I wouldn't have anything else. I use fairly cheap 2" 3 pointers as they're easy to put on quickly and they hold you reasonably well. I don't see the point of 4+ point 3" harnesses at the speeds we do. Once you get to speed events, absolutely but not doing this sort of stuff. You can also just wear the lap belt if you're driving terrain that's technical with no risk of rollover which I like doing.

[Mark90]

Light weight open face motorbike trails helmets would be a good choice I think, I have one that is much much lighter than my full face bike helmet which isn't heavy as bike helmets go, my trials one is only green tag (BS type B ) though so doesn't meet MSA reg which require blue tag (BS type A) or equivalent.

[will_warne]

Yep, Mark. That was the sort of thing I've been looking at amoungst other things.

[northernchris]

Yep, Mark. That was the sort of thing I've been looking at amoungst other things.

I an using an OMP carbon composite lid,not huge and certainly noy heavy.

Chris

[MogLite]

If anyone wants to wear a helmet but doesn't want to go for a car/bike/motorsports one.

Take a look here for a good bunch of options

No connection with the company, just came across it on the web.

My winch-bitch for example doesn't want the weight of a proper lid - or the expense of a carbon one Chris but would find some bump resistance, and a place for a headset useful.

As an aside - he is looking at getting a set of protective glasses - something like this

to protect from flying stones and branches across the face

[Mark90]

If anyone wants to wear a helmet but doesn't want to go for a car/bike/motorsports one.

Take a look here for a good bunch of options

Some good options there, a ski/snowboard helmet with a set of audio force ear phone pads could be quite good, just add a boom mic.

[will_warne]

Hmmm, some nice ideas there Andy.

[Tonk]

i doubt if they do sizes big enough for your head Will

[jules]

MM

My bitch could do with the exercise.... (good job the wife's not on the forum)

my other winch bitch is too short I would end up runing him over

Cheeky git - I do read it sometimes ......

He is in soooooo much trouble

Victoria