bill van snorkle Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Over the decades, on internet and magazine forums, I read where LandRover apologists blame the drivers abilities for exposing the various mechanical design flaws and weaknesses of their favorite vehicles.In the working 4wd sector in most parts of the world, LandRovers have been replaced by other brands of vehicles that are built with sufficient reserves of strength and reliability, so that relatively untrained drivers can perform a usefull days work without having to mollycoddle and baby the vehicle for fear of suffering time wasting expensive breakdowns. Yes driver training will assist operators to get the best from their vehicles, but it would be great if the vehicles was designed right for the use that the manufacturers promote them to be suitable for. IMHO Rovers love affair with the concept of traction control, by braking a spinning wheel and transferring the drive to the wheel with most traction is flawed for crosscountry vehicle application ,when compared to locking or LSD's. If a differential has say a 4:1 gear reduction and you brake one wheel, the remaining wheel on that axle is driven, due to the action of the spider gears at a 2:1 reduction at twice the speed and half the torque, which in some circumstances on vehicles such as the Freeloader with no low range, causes stalling, and other times the rapid change in wheel speed will cause wheelspin and loss of traction. For reasons that escape me now, I am and have always been a LandRover owner. But I think for the most part they were designed by engineers who didn't have a clue, and were built by people who couldn't give a stuff. I genuinly hope that guy wins his case. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Freelander 2004 the /my freelander was one of the only cars over the whole season not to get stuck or be towed off the stages in the British Off Road Championships. You could make any 4x4 do that. if it was 4 wheele drive full time it would crash every time it whan round a round about. what happend to never go off road alone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJIbex Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 That clip is utter rubbish; if driven properly (ie applying a few more revs to allow the traction control to work) the freelander would drive straight out of that situation. The guy must be derranged; but no doubt the general public's sympathy will be with him just harming Land Rover image unfairly and helping to fuel the anti 4X4 brigade. Plus this gut is not complaining about the freelander breaking or being unreliable he is just demonstarting that he can't drive it. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 please can someone summarise what the vid. is about? (unable to view it ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigster Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Ican not see the click - - it will not let me... can some one download it or something... I am curious as to what you lot are talking about.. I agree, adverts are obviously over the top. But the difference with Land Rover is that they are selling vehicles purely on the name 'Land Rover' and the reputation that it has as being the 'ultimate offroader'. Not like other companies who have a reputation of good build quality, transmissions, longevety, etc. Okay, so the Freelander has sold well and has helped to keep the company from going bust, but they can't have it both way's. Log Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Can't get on it either now. Basically, a film of a guy in a Floda getting it cross axled in a shallow ditch in a grassy field and then complaining when lifting the clutch at tickover in 1st does not get him out. Application of some throttle would get the TC operating properly and he coulld drive out. A 4x2 with TC could drive out. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I bet they don't do a followup report about how he lost his case after an LR Instructor showed him how to use TC to get the car moving. To be honest they only wanted to have a dig at LR which they have now done so it's probably a closed book as far as they are concerned. Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 i hope he does loose, has his house reposesed and ends up on the streets, doing favors for sailors.... my grandmother could have driven that freelander out of that situation, as has been said, a few more revs, get a wheel to start spinning and the traction control would have walked him out... if fact, i'd say that his freelander, with traction control would be better suited to those conditions than my Disco Tdi.... Landrover can do without tools like him stiring it up at the moment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 I don't think it's fair for this to be used as some kind of 'lets take this opportunity to slag off Land Rover' - the guy is driving the Freelander like a road car. He expects it to go across fields etc with no input from himself at all. I'd like to see the supposed mountain he got part way up before failing. As for Bills comments - if you have such an obvious dislike for land Rovers - then why post about them on what is a website for enthusiasts? We all make what are in the main, slightly cynical comments about build quality etc, but you seem to complain about them for a living (at least recently). I don't mean to cause offence, but you appear to hate them. Have you got one? if you have, you could possibly make yourself a lot happier if you sold it and got a superior other make. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top90 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I just thought he was trying to get his money back and save two years depreciation! Its bizarre how anyone can claim fault with the general abilities of a car after driving it for two years. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I don't think it's fair for this to be used as some kind of 'lets take this opportunity to slag off Land Rover' - the guy is driving the Freelander like a road car. He expects it to go across fields etc with no input from himself at all. I'd like to see the supposed mountain he got part way up before failing. As for Bills comments - if you have such an obvious dislike for land Rovers - then why post about them on what is a website for enthusiasts? We all make what are in the main, slightly cynical comments about build quality etc, but you seem to complain about them for a living (at least recently). I don't mean to cause offence, but you appear to hate them. Have you got one? if you have, you could possibly make yourself a lot happier if you sold it and got a superior other make. Les. I assume this is a democratic forum? and that I am entitled to express a qualified opinion? If more true enthusiasts like me had criticized Rover a bit more when they began losing the plot ,circa 1990 instead of glorifying shoddy design and workmanship through the various LandRover specific magazines etc, then the quality and reputation of the product worldwide might not be quite so poor as it is today. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 Sure it's a democratic forum. Just seems odd you complain and call yourself an enthusiast. Exactly what are you enthusiastic about? A carp motor? As for the comment that if more people had complained etc - well they didn't, or maybe Land Rover didn't listen/hear. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Whilst I can see Bill's point of view, to a degree, there are also faults with riceburners. Most of the Jap pick ups are still running cart springs on the rear and give a terrible ride on slightly rough roads and tracks. I also prefer the Land Rover permanent 4WD. The biggest problem I have with, for example an L200, is that the styling is vulgar and I don't care for the interior. So I wouldn't want one on my drive and I wouldn't want to sit in one. If that means I have drafty doors and need to fit new wheel bearings after 100,000 miles, so be it. The riceburners may be cheaper in the first instance but in 10 years it's almost scrap value whereas a Defender could be £5-£8K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Les - one look round this forum should tell you that LR's aren't the pinnacle of engineering. However, it will also tell you that they're pretty good at a lot of things which is why we love 'em. Blind praise does nothing any favours. Chris - what's wrong with cart springs eh? Agree about jap stuff though, it's fine when it's running but when it dies the bills can be huge. I'd rather know my LR was going to slowly leech small amounts of money at a fairly constant rate than run like a sewing machine for 10 years and then stab me in the wallet unexpectedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Chris - what's wrong with cart springs eh? Me? Well, I could go on for ages about that but I will let Steve field this one. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Me?Well, I could go on for ages about that but I will let Steve field this one. Chris Whilst the temptation is to jump in feet first on this one, I will resist. I use it as example of how Land Rover led the field over 35 years ago and IMHO continue to do so. To paraphrase, I'd rather break down in a Land Rover and walk than arrive in an L200. I wouldn't want to break down 500 miles from Alice Springs but I don't live there so it's not my problem. You're rarely further than two miles from a pub in this Country. Debatable point now. I have found in 20 plus years of LR ownership even when something goes wrong they seem to hang on long enough to get home. You might need to drop a prop or something but the simplicity seems to get you through. An element of inbuilt goodwill and friendship, like a faithful old dog who has a habit of clearing the house with his farts. Japanese machinery just seems a bit more spiteful when they do let go. Perhaps they haven't quite got over WW2 yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isuzurover Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Sure it's a democratic forum.Just seems odd you complain and call yourself an enthusiast. Exactly what are you enthusiastic about? A carp motor? As for the comment that if more people had complained etc - well they didn't, or maybe Land Rover didn't listen/hear. Les. Bill owns at least one landie (very modified IIA), as well as a mountain of parts, and gets his money by fixing other people's LRs AFAIK. However, I feel he would be complaining about any marque he had owned for 40 years and made a living working on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 They don't like it up em!' Log Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grot Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 So did this go to court ? what happened? anyone know? PS I bought a hammer the other day and the bloody thing wont knock in a single nail unless I help it...I'm gonna sue !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 So did this go to court ? what happened? anyone know? PS I bought a hammer the other day and the bloody thing wont knock in a single nail unless I help it...I'm gonna sue !!! ya supposed to hold it by the wooden end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 So did this go to court ? what happened? anyone know? PS I bought a hammer the other day and the bloody thing wont knock in a single nail unless I help it...I'm gonna sue !!! I called the Telford county court this morning to ask. They said that the case is being heard this week and is likely to take until tomorrow at least. They cannot tell me the outcome on the telephone so all we can do is to keep an eye on the local press/news. Sadly I live in Wiltshire so Telford is out of range rather - anyone local enough to see the local rag? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPR Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Perhaps one of the rags mags would be willing to use their press credentials to check on the outcome. I'm sure this site is monitored by the various publications.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Away from the topic, The freelander is a lot stronger than you lot give credit for. I started playing with freelanders because driving the 90 challenge truck was no longer interesting and becoming boring as very little could stop it. The freelander can do much more than you would expect and if you know how to drive one it will make the average driver of a 90 or series on a play day very red faced. Also you can drive home in comfort and with 30mpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8RRC Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 This was in today's Shropshire Star Sorry the image is so big! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I called the Telford county court this morning to ask. They said that the case is being heard this week and is likely to take until tomorrow at least. They cannot tell me the outcome on the telephone so all we can do is to keep an eye on the local press/news. Sadly I live in Wiltshire so Telford is out of range rather - anyone local enough to see the local rag?Chris I live in shropshire so if I see anything I will post it. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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