Chassis wows - need some help/advice

[Chicken Drumstick]

My 88 needs a new chassis. However I'm finding it hard to actually find a new one, does anyone have any ideas on who makes them?

So far I've tried:

Marsland Chassis - nope, they only do Defenders.

Designa Chassis - nope they don't do any leaf sprung chassis

Which leaves Richards. But here's the snag, I want some customisation, nothing drastic. All I want is the front dumb iron moving 6" forward and the rear spring hanger (front spring) moving back 6" so I can run a rear leaf spring on the front (want to go SOA).

But they said they really weren't interested in this and would charge £800 for doing it. Which seems a lot of money considering a chassis is only £1030 in it's entirety.

So does anyone else have any ideas that might help me out?

Thanks.

[landroversforever]

Would richards sell you a bare chassis to mod yourself and then get galvanised?

[Gazzar]

In fairness, that's quite a modification. I'd imagine they have jigs with the standard chassis rails on them, so you'd be talking about cutting 4 bespoke chassis rails from scratch. Longer steel sheets, and then the job of sticking them together on a special jig.

So, if they are busy I can see why they'd give you a rich quote!

[Team Idris]

Like Gazzar, I think that is quite an ask. And they have to garantee it as safe. £800 sounds a lot, but you can munch though that real quick in a factory fab shop. I'd want £50 for the cad work on the punch files.

New chassis and get it modded sounds better to me too.

But, and this is a big but........that's not a direct replacement chassis? That there is one of those IVA thread thingy's

Not fussed meself on that though, but if you change the spec that much, it might as well be coil-over springs up front?

(Only saying like)

(Personally I'd just weld the old chassis longer )

[Chicken Drumstick]

Thanks. Sadly the old chassis is a bit past welding, well it's heavily patched already (I can't weld either) and it wants £400 of welding done on it and could break again on the otherside first time out. New chassis seems the only option really.

I don't think there should be an IVA issues, nothing is changing, same engine, g/box, axles, suspension & steering. Only the spring hanger is moving.

[Landy-Novice]

why not just buy a bare chassis (iirc is around £80 cheaper) and find an engineer/weld to do the mods then get it dipped,

[Snagger]

I don't think there should be an IVA issues, nothing is changing, same engine, g/box, axles, suspension & steering. Only the spring hanger is moving.

You can't change the chassis spec from standard without IVA - stretching the chassis and respecifying the front suspension will count as a radical alteration, just like if you did a coil spring retrofit. There's no way around it. That's why I have never gone for PAS on my 109 - cutting the cross member about would probably be enough to constitute a radical alteration to the chassis. Check the DVLA rules on their website - they're quite specific on what can be done to the chassis (basically, like for like repair or replacement only).

I agree with the others about the £800 charge, too. It might seem a lot at face value, but when you consider the tooling alterations, special jigs and one-off material marking and cutting, plus any potential liability issues, it's a pretty good deal.

[Gazzar]

Irritating, isn't it, when the great idea get killed by legislation and cost.

Imagine how much worse it will be if the full proposals under the EU thing are implemented!

I presume you are trying to achieve greater articulation.

We have an old saying where I grew up - If I wanted to go there, I wouldn't start from here.

So, considering what a series is worth, compared to an buying old discovery, would you be able to achieve the articulation you need with a coil set-up?

Otherwise you may investigate other spring packs, longer shackles, that sort of thing.

Or spend the money and get it IVA'd

G.

[Chicken Drumstick]

I sort of got lumbered with the leafer, so it owes me money. But is sadly just a sitting pile of junk at present. If I'm going to spend any money on it I want it to be worthwhile. I like the idea of SOA and it all looks pretty simple to get working, I just didn't plan on the cost of having the chassis modified.

As for IVA, unless things have changed since the last time I read up on it, there was no defintion (not even a hint) at what "radical" meant. I personally do not in any shape or form consider a moved spring hanger radical. Also DVLA opinion doesn't actually mean it's part of the legislation. And where does the chassis end or start on a vehicle? Is a spring hanger actually part of the chassis? If so then adding a new seatbelt mount or a rollcage would be just as radical and also need an IVA.

[chadler]

I would look at it from the point of view of a post-incident perspective. If your vehicle should ever be involved in a serious accident and an inspection is carried out to assess contributing factors; then I think an IVA/SVA certificate to prove that it wasn't your radical alteration of the suspension that caused the accident would be a good thing.

[Snagger]

You can do the mods if you're happy with an IVA or SVA - that should present little problem. There's no chance of legitimately doing it without that or keeping the original registration, though. I quote:

"To keep the original registration number:

Cars and light vans must use:

- the original unaltered chassis or unaltered monocoque bodyshell (that is, the body and chassis as one unit); or

- a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original. A receipt from the dealer or manufacturer is required."

As for DVLA, their interpretation of the rules means it's legislation - it's their trainset!

The whole document can be found here: http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_180218.pdf

[Snagger]

I would look at it from the point of view of a post-incident perspective. If your vehicle should ever be involved in a serious accident and an inspection is carried out to assess contributing factors; then I think an IVA/SVA certificate to prove that it wasn't your radical alteration of the suspension that caused the accident would be a good thing.

I think getting an engineer's test and report of all significant mods is wise, not just for insurance and prosecution reasons but just to make sure your work is safe. I had my 109 inspected after it's rebuild, again when I fitted the Tdi and once more, recently, when I fitted coiler axles and Discovery brakes. We can all make mistakes, but getting the vehicle checked over should catch anything dangerous.

[RobotMan]

I think getting an engineer's test and report of all significant mods is wise, not just for insurance and prosecution reasons but just to make sure your work is safe. I had my 109 inspected after it's rebuild, again when I fitted the Tdi and once more, recently, when I fitted coiler axles and Discovery brakes. We can all make mistakes, but getting the vehicle checked over should catch anything dangerous.

Out of interest where did you find a suitable engineer for this?

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Here's a strange thought that I'll put out there: How about a standard chassis, and keeping it standard?

If you want extra articulation, there's plenty of other ways of achieving it. If you don't mod the chassis then you'll save yourself no end of hassle.

(Although personally, I wouldn't worry about that level of modification. If you replaced it with a tubular space frame chassis - that's when I'd consider an IVA. Not moving a suspension mount.)

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Hows about getting a standard chassis from Richards, but ask them to give you the extar unit so you can weld it in and then remove the

one in front, there would be enough room to do this

Better stiill ask them if on the bit you wnat to move they don't fully weld it in, just a few good tacks etc ?

Nige

[nickjaxe]

Whats SOA????

[Gazzar]

Spring over axle. Allows flatter springs, softer ride and greater articulation in theory. Used on a lot of commercials, and the hi-lux, I think.

[Snagger]

Spring over axle. Allows flatter springs, softer ride and greater articulation in theory. Used on a lot of commercials, and the hi-lux, I think.

And the 101. The idea is that a flat leaf spring is more compliant and has a more even spring rate, so allows more controlled and progressive articulation. Curved springs don't just bend on compression - loads are also transmitted along the spring, and the proportion of that longitudinal compression depends on the spring curvature, which itself is inconsistent (think of the forces within a triangle when compressing it).

[Snagger]

Out of interest where did you find a suitable engineer for this?

The mods I have done don't affect stresses much as they use standard parts from various different vehicles. This means that a detailed knowledge of stress calculations is not required, just an experienced mechanics eye and suitable testing equipment In the case of my axle swap, for example, all the rear suspension mountings are re-used from the original axle and the front mountings are copies of the original front mountings made deeper (for the track rod clearance) of 50% thicker steel. A check on the welds and overall security, a check on the steering to make sure that there is sufficient clearance on the parts at all steering angles and a rolling-road brake test like in the MoT, having detailed the work done to the mechanic (giving them an idea of what to check closely) is all it needs. If they're willing to sign off the work on headed paper, then they're confident that they have checked the work is safe, as they would be legally implicated if the work was not safe. This means it'll generally be the boss who does the checks, so someone who has experience and has a vested interest in making sure the check is thorough...