T16 Powered Light weight.

[MECCANO]

Well its about time i finally stuck some pics up of the lwt with its new lump.

I havent got many pictures, but hopefully you will enjoy what i do have.

For those that dont know what a t16 is, it a 2.0L Rover Engine that was pre k-series. Comes in N/a and Turbo form, it would be rude not to have a Turbo.

Its a cast steel block and ali head and kicks out 200bhp in stock form. 190lb/ft Torque. and weighs a fraction of the old 2.25.

I originally intended to fit a TDi lump for day to day driving... but i changed my mind mid conversion.

After a friend suggested i couldn't remove the old 2.25 and have the new engine and box mated in the same evening, it looked like this:

The engine is coupled to an lt77 with a short bell housing/ input shaft setup.

Because the engien is normally fitted transversly in a FWD car, a few other things were needed to make it fit.

Using a blend of Disco MPi, SD1 and random Ldv bits you end up with this:

The engine is pretty dinky, and with the short bellhousing it sits pretty far back:

The turbo was pretty tight, but clocking the inlet gave me the space to clear the footwell without getting the grinder out:

The finished article on its first proper run down to a muddy War and Peace Show:

(I expect a flamming over the exhaust!)

Hope you like!

[Quagmire]

Finally the thread goes up!

Having been out in this I can confirm that it is scarily fast. Would beat my MS'd 3.5 powered 90 easily I reckon.

The sensation of acceleration is like being punched in the face!


Good work

When you MSing it then?

[MECCANO]

First off all i need to swap the box out for the R380 as the lt77 just can't handle shifting at the higher revs.

It also has a 1.2 transfer which is a tad to high.

There is also a small issue of heatsoak on the turbo. There isn't enoug flow over the water cooled turbo when the thermostat opens on idle. A bit of re-plumbing should cure this though.

Since the pictures above, i have relocated the Mems ecu to the batttery box. The ecu could handle the vibrations of the engine fine, but the old oil hardened wiring couldn't.

As a result i knocked up a new 4m loom ready for squirting at a later date.

The current ecu still requires a rotor arm setup with single coil... and needs to go.

[honitonhobbit]

We put one of these (out of an 820Turbo) into a QT ultralight some years back, that used the Disco MPi LT77 and bellhousing and a 1.44 T box... It was fun. It's a superb engine, one that LR were foolish not to put in the Freelander in NA and Turbo form

[Boris113]

That looks like a lot of fun- great work!

What brackets have you used to mount the Donaldson filter? I'm looking for a way of mounting mine at the moment.

[MECCANO]

Cheers!. It's such an improvement. Completely transformed the vehicle.

I used a couple of quick fist clamps on the filter.

[MECCANO]

Double post!

[landroversforever]

Sounds like a good engine, wonder what made LR fit the K series rather than this?

Is the K series a descendant of the T16?

[MECCANO]

I believe the K-series was the product of the T16.

The K-series is an all Ali engine making it lighter, and in N/A form, theres little point to a cast block in the T16.

However there is a Turbo K series 1.8 that was fitted to the Rover 75… that would drop straight into a freelander.

However stick a turbo on it, and a cast block is great. The engines biggest weakness is the pistons. Upgrade these, a better turbo, increased boost and a remap and you can see considerable gains passed 250bhp. A lot of modified Rover 220’s are running reliably at low 300’s

However the lwt is already enough of a handful when the turbo steps in and out. Especially in the snow and ice.

[honitonhobbit]

Have to disagree with you on the NA T16. It's still a great engine and at 134bhp with oodles of torque and rev it would still have been so much better than the 1.8K in the Freebie. It's also bullet proof and as we all know the K isn't. Even in the Disco MPi the NA T16 is generally a big mileage lump.

[MECCANO]

Fair enough, i've never driven the K-series so i have no comaprison. and i do love my T

[Soren Frimodt]

Sure would be a great little lump for the 80", how is the low end grunt? And I mean really low, as in at tickover compared to the 2,25?

[MECCANO]

On idle it will do anything the 2.25 would and more. It will just pull its self along in 1st, 2nd, 3rd all day long.

With the high ratio transfer i find myself sitting in too high a gears before the boost has come in (1500rpm). It will quite hapily maintain the speed limit up steep hills etc on the motorway before its has. For example With the lt77 in 5th and 1.2 ratio transfer, At speed limit its ticking over at 1200. basically making 5th into a fairly un-responsive (well more responsive than a 2.25) overdrive gear, so you just leave it in 4th most of the time.

Having a large intercooler obviously doesnt help with this. but i'm hoping droping to a 1.4 should improve things

[heath robinson]

How does the larger intercooler affect things? I thought you wanted a larger one for more oomph, or is it that a larger one means a longer path, so more lag?

Sorry to be nosy, just that turbos are both new to me, and becoming increasingly common in my world.

Jake

[Tanuki]

I always liked the T16, to the point where I think Land-Rover missed a marketing opportunity to fit that engine to a Discovery as a "rapid intervention" vehicle [think police/fire/ambulance/highways-agency/doctors/vets].

Even without a turbo, the Discovery MPi had the fastest top-speed of any of the first-series of Discoveries. And being under-2-litres it would have fitted well into the tax-brackets of many European countries (italy, Spain, France, Portugal) where their equivalent of VED was based on engine cc.

[Stevie D]

I always liked the T16, to the point where I think Land-Rover missed a marketing opportunity to fit that engine to a Discovery as a "rapid intervention" vehicle [think police/fire/ambulance/highways-agency/doctors/vets].

Even without a turbo, the Discovery MPi had the fastest top-speed of any of the first-series of Discoveries. And being under-2-litres it would have fitted well into the tax-brackets of many European countries (italy, Spain, France, Portugal) where their equivalent of VED was based on engine cc.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the Italian police used it in their fleet of defenders for this reason.

Nice option and well executed for the lightweight. Had one in a 220 in my boy racer days, less willing to rev but much more torque than the honda engined 216 gti it replaced.

Steve

[MECCANO]

How does the larger intercooler affect things? I thought you wanted a larger one for more oomph, or is it that a larger one means a longer path, so more lag?

Got it in one. Basically its a bigger space to bring to pressure so takes longer.

Ive tried to compensate by giving it a free flowing 2.5" exhaust to get the turbo spinning up quicker.

Tanuki, similarly with the defender T16's i don't know why they weren't bigger.

Cheers Steve

[dirtyninety]

I've never really looked into these engines as an option for a transplant.

It would be a fantastic cheap engine in a race buggy that mates to standard LR gearbox...

What kind of mods would you need for 200+hp and raising the torque up?

[honitonhobbit]

IIRC correctly the torque curve is deliberately programmed to be relatively flat as the original gearbox fitted to these engines in the Rover cars was less than strong...

There is a modified ECU available that was used in the Tomcat (Rover 220) racing series as part of the control mods

There's a chap called Marcostic (sp?) used to hang out on here in the very old days who fitted a T16 to his 88" then went balls out to tune it - very nice job...

[Snagger]

That's an impressive mod, and even more impressive speed of installation. Are you going to be fitting a grille of any sort to protect the intercooler and hide its piping?

If that's the exhaust under the sill (and mud!), it might be worth making some kind of guard so that no-one burns their leg getting out of the car, but it depends on how hot it gets - turbos sap a lot of the EGT, so their exhausts sometimes don't get that hot. Certainly worth doing something to keep some of the mud off, though, just to stop it rotting. Not the flaming you prompted, I hope!

[MECCANO]

What kind of mods would you need for 200+hp and raising the torque up?

Based on what i have seen on the rover forums. With the usual exhaust, and intercooler mods + abit more boost and a remap on the stock ecu you can achieve around 220bhp.

The pistons are made of fudge, so upgrading these will alow you to boost higher, and with a t28 turbo, a tunable ecu and so high flowing injectors you should ebable to reach 240.

To take it further you will need more agressive cams, conrods and alot of balancing but with a few other tweaks, some guys are runnign provable 270's.

There are people who have takign it further, but they seem to be preforming witchcraft.

Honiton

Cheers i will look into the ecu.

I'm actually using some of markos parts mixed with my own collection of mpi bits. Alot of his conversion parts suffered from his roll over and rustign away in boxes when it was removed. I

Luckily i had the Mpi bits ( which my bro an i battled to remove from a knackered discovery - Cheers Bro!) so i could cherry pick.

Cheers Nick

I plan to make a surround to the grill, but the intercooler protrudes slightly from the front panel, and i quite like the asbo look!

Your right about the exhausts. You have to be very careful when wearing shorts. I intend on making a couple of rock sliders that match the profile of the wheel arches ( so stick out further than the pipe). This should protect any one leaning against, or sliding out of the vehicle, aswell as make them more subtle.

I did make them out of stainless to try and prolong their life, but from experience of Motor bikes, they still suffer.

Chris

[Snagger]

That should do the job nicely. It's an impressive job, Chris.

[MECCANO]

Thanks Nick,

It will be better once i get those seats in

[Boris113]

Thanks for that, I don't suppose you know the size of the quick fists used do you?

I agree with Soren, this could make for a very interesting 80 inch conversion!

How much work is required to waterproof the engine? I'm curious to know what sort of MPG you get in it's current state of tune also.

Sorry to ask lots of questions!

[MECCANO]

I think it was the "super size" but its states what od's it covers.

Well i havent tested it yet, but the only limiting factor on mine is the dizzy cap. Converted to megasquirt and it should be imposssible to drown. The only thing you need to be aware of is mud ingress into the cam belt covers and bell housing ( as they arent water tight. ), the bellhousing i used could be with a bit of work.

On my run to and from war and peace. Loaded with camping gear, Tools, and recovery gear ( it was very muddy) i got low to mid 30's. I was keeping pace with the traffic in the outside lane of the motorway.