Tyre wear, tracking, rear axle....i'm stumped!!

[reb78]

First off, apologies for asking this again - this periodically comes up with me (generally when i look at it) but i am, again, having trouble figuring out my steering setup on the 110.

Following the tyre wear thread (outside edge of front nearside tyre), i checked the tracking at the weekend.

The problem i have is that i follow HFHs DIY Tracking thread in the tech archive, setup the steering so it is spot on with the string, straight ahead set. Then i drive it and the steering has to be held about 20-25 degrees (maybe a little less) to the right when on the move for straight ahead.

This is the left side of the motor:

Looks fine from a distance. The string is taught round all four wheels at mid height and not fouled by tread blocks of lettering on its way round. Now, i take a closer look at the rear tyre - left hand side still - and there is a gap at the front of the tyre:

The gap is about 3-4mm where the string touches the back of the tyre, but not the front edge. In my head, its almost as if the rear axle is twisted forwards on the nearside. Trailing arm bushes are fine.

I'm a bit stumped - i just cant get this setup properly. The tyre wear is getting on my nerves - nearly everything on the front axle has been replaced or adjusted properly last spring (and checked again since). Do i have a problem with the rear axle alignment and could it explain the excessive wear on the front nearside tyre?

Its a normal 110 - standard CSW suspension (TD5 setup), not heavily offroaded and never been involved in any accidents since we have owned it (since about 1992).

[Bowie69]

Is it worth checking the chassis geometry, as if the bushes are all OK and matched, that's about the only thing that could cause that.

You could measure the hub-to-a-fixed-point-on-the-chassis distance and compare with the other side, that way you know if indeed it is twisted or not...

[reb78]

I hope the chassis isnt twisted! The only other thing i wondered (and need to check) is whether the bolt holes where the trailing arms attach to the rear axle elongate at all over time? I guess that could affect the distance the axle sits from the trailing arm mounts?

[Spearos]

I had a similar scenario when I tried the 'string method' to check my tracking, so I used the method that *I think* is mentioned later in HFH's tracking thread - basically getting the distance between front wheels rims the same front and back, or clamping a bit of angle iron/bar to each hub doing the same.

Out of curiousity after changing my upper trailing arm bushes I checked the tracking with some string and all was good, so IMO it's fair to say the string method has it's limitations... if you have a lose back end!

HTH

[reb78]

Thanks Spearos. Trouble with the rod method is that i cant for the life of me see how i can get it on an appropriate part of the rim at the back of the wheels as the radius arms are in the way.

With clamping a bit of box to the discs, doesnt the fact that the wheels arent on the ground have any effect on the position and settings? I guess it shouldnt if your swivels are correctly adjusted??

I will give both methods another try though.

I bought a trakrite guage made by Gunson - trouble is that the arms arent really long enough to reach these landy wheels at the mid point of the wheel and so its awkward to set it on the wheels properly.

[Bowie69]

I wasn't suggesting the chassis was twisted, more that one of the 'ears' could be in the wrong place slightly.

Do you run a lift? If so the panhard will have moved the front axle towards the left slightly, though it wouldn't account for your apparent problem.

Your problem with the steering wheel may be down to the wheel position on the column, or you need to re-centre the steering box and adjust the drag link length to suit.

[Aragorn]

Why not just get it aligned by a garage with the proper equipment?

Not only will you actually get it set accurately with the proper turntables under the wheels etc, but they'll be able to tell you if the rear axle is actually true to the vehicle or not.

Setting your front axle against a squint rear isnt going to work well!

Many fast fit places even offer a free check, which should show you if the rear axles causing problems or not.

Alignment is about the only job i wont even attempt to DIY, the equipment to do a good job is simply far too expensive. Bits of string and whatnot might get you close, but it wont get it RIGHT. Sort of like trying to mic your cylinder bores with a ruler...

[V8 Freak]

Richard,

If you want to pop up to the farm one weekend and pop your truck on the ramp you can check the distance between front and rear of the front rims the way I do.... With some brasing wire.... This will at least tell you if you have ano toe out or in and can adjust it out.

It may also make it easier to measure between specific points as you can just walk around under the truck..

Neil

[reb78]

Richard,

If you want to pop up to the farm one weekend and pop your truck on the ramp you can check the distance between front and rear of the front rims the way I do.... With some brasing wire.... This will at least tell you if you have ano toe out or in and can adjust it out.

It may also make it easier to measure between specific points as you can just walk around under the truck..

Neil

Thanks Neil. That would be good - you might spot something that I've missed too. I'll check when i'm free and PM you to see if you are about.

Aragorn - I take your point, but I've seen this job screwed up so many times by tyre places, that I actually reckon string is more accurate in a lot of cases. Most garages don't do the job themselves, so i'm stuck with the likes of ATS/Kwikfit.

[reb78]

I wasn't suggesting the chassis was twisted, more that one of the 'ears' could be in the wrong place slightly.

Do you run a lift? If so the panhard will have moved the front axle towards the left slightly, though it wouldn't account for your apparent problem.

Your problem with the steering wheel may be down to the wheel position on the column, or you need to re-centre the steering box and adjust the drag link length to suit.

Ah. I see.

Nope - no lift its got Genuine LR springs all round same as the setup on the TD5 CSW (recently removed the self leveller and put TD5 rear springs on - but it was like this before)

Steering box was replaced last year and is centred properly.

[Bowie69]

Might be worth checking the passenger front wheel camber -i.e. is it vertical (or whatever spec LR use)?

Park it on a side slope, check it, then park it the other way round on a side slope and check it again (one way you will need to do this on the inside of the wheel probably), if it's changed then something is moving on the swivel bearing somehow. Wheels straight of course.

[Spearos]

Thanks Spearos. Trouble with the rod method is that i cant for the life of me see how i can get it on an appropriate part of the rim at the back of the wheels as the radius arms are in the way.

With clamping a bit of box to the discs, doesnt the fact that the wheels arent on the ground have any effect on the position and settings? I guess it shouldnt if your swivels are correctly adjusted??

I simply clamped a piece of angle on the hub face in a position that was easy enough to measure from side to side. I do remember it being a bit awkward! It was far from accurate I'm sure, but after all it's a Land Rover and there appears to be no uneven tyre wear.

Your problem with the steering wheel may be down to the wheel position on the column, or you need to re-centre the steering box and adjust the drag link length to suit.

I've done a fair bit of reading about setting tracking on a LR, and this comes up quite often - the importance of the steering box being centered.

Aragorn - I take your point, but I've seen this job screwed up so many times by tyre places, that I actually reckon string is more accurate in a lot of cases. Most garages don't do the job themselves, so i'm stuck with the likes of ATS/Kwikfit.

So true!!! If you do it yourself, you know it's done properly... or at least to your standard, however low or high they may be!!!

[JeffR]

Been told these work quite well and are about the same price as a trip to kwickfit

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trackace-Laser-Wheel-Alignment-System-Tracking-Gauges-Toe-in-Out-Tool-Tracker-/300814333955?pt=UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item4609ee7803

[reb78]

Been told these work quite well and are about the same price as a trip to kwickfit

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trackace-Laser-Wheel-Alignment-System-Tracking-Gauges-Toe-in-Out-Tool-Tracker-/300814333955?pt=UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item4609ee7803

Thanks Jeff - Thats what i meant when i said trakrite above (Trakrite is their drive over one). Those arms could do with being a bit longer for the large landy wheels/tyres. When i checked my tracking using that laser machine, it was fine.

[JeffR]

Thanks Jeff - Thats what i meant when i said trakrite above (Trakrite is their drive over one). Those arms could do with being a bit longer for the large landy wheels/tyres. When i checked my tracking using that laser machine, it was fine.

useful info as I was considering one!!!!

[mmgemini]

For checking I use the same tool as the FORD rally mechanics. A telescopic aerial. Works a treat.

DON'T measure off the wheel. it could be buckled where you measure. Go to the widest part on the tyre.Yep the whole shift once fell for that one.

DON'T drive the car forward, or if you do very gently. Always move the car forward, never backwards

Don't hit the brakes when you stop, let it come to rest by it'self.

After each adjustment. Then bounce the car to let the suspension settle.

If your still not happy then a plumb bob and do a drop check on all the chassis points.

The other thing I've found is if you use a drive on tracking device only use tyres that have never turned a wheel. Any run out on the tyre is read by the drive on device giving wrong readings.

HTH

[GW8IZR]

Is the string measurement mirrored on the other back wheel?

In other words if there is 5mm on the front edge on one side is the other side parallel or 5mm at the rear edge?

Regards Paul

[landroversforever]

I've used the method with a straight edge clamped across each hub and set them that way. My tyres are wearing nice and evenly .

[reb78]

Is the string measurement mirrored on the other back wheel? In other words if there is 5mm on the front edge on one side is the other side parallel or 5mm at the rear edge? Regards Paul

No. That's a good point I suppose. It sits flat across both sides of the offside rear (although, I suppose I pull it tight on the rear edge as I wrap the string around the car. So, perhaps I need to look at just pulling the string tight along that side of the vehicle, without pulling it around the back of the tyre)

[Bowie69]

Bent rear stub?

[disco_al]

i always use a piece of wood with 3 holes in it - 2 at 1215mm (centres) and one then at 924mm (centres) and put the drag/track rods in and adjust as necessary - works perfectly for me

[Daan]

For tracking, is usualy take the front wheels off, g-clamp some 2 metre long box sections to the discs, both sticking forward. Adjust untill the box sections are parallel (measure with a tape). Done.

Daan

[GW8IZR]

No. That's a good point I suppose. It sits flat across both sides of the offside rear (although, I suppose I pull it tight on the rear edge as I wrap the string around the car. So, perhaps I need to look at just pulling the string tight along that side of the vehicle, without pulling it around the back of the tyre)

Need to ascertain whether the rear axle is bent maybe due to a stub axle etc, or if its straight and simply not running true fore / aft

I like the idea of g cramping a couple of straights on the discs as that will tell you something factual .... I'd more than likely knock something up to hold a couple of cheap laser pointers - easy to get them true by reversing them and adjusting out the difference til they are spot on.

[Daan]

Need to ascertain whether the rear axle is bent maybe due to a stub axle etc, or if its straight and simply not running true fore / aft I like the idea of g cramping a couple of straights on the discs as that will tell you something factual .... I'd more than likely knock something up to hold a couple of cheap laser pointers - easy to get them true by reversing them and adjusting out the difference til they are spot on.

Laser pointers would never last in my workshop. And waaay over the top for what we want. If you use the 2 metre lengths of box secion, you have multiplied the accuracy by a factor 4 or so. I cant think of a more accurate way of doing this. This is even more so when you want to go toe in/or out; 1 mm toe in becomes 4 mm toe in, which is much more accurate to measure with a tape than the usual way.

Daan

[GW8IZR]

Well yeah... but he's not trying to set the tracking, he's doing a DIY four wheel alignment which is a bit more involved.