Mo Murphy Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 If the 8274 is an 8000 lb winch with a 2.1hp standard motor, how many pounds would it pull with a 5.5hp bowmotor or a 6hp Warn motor. Just a question out of curiousity having just read the article in LRO about 12000lb winches. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 If the 8274 is an 8000 lb winch with a 2.1hp standard motor, how many pounds would it pull with a 5.5hp bowmotor or a 6hp Warn motor.Just a question out of curiousity having just read the article in LRO about 12000lb winches. Mo Everything I've read and been told, say they stay at an 8,000 rating. It just that they pull faster for a given load As soon as I've sussed the front winch on MogLite, I'll crack out my load-cell and we'll have a "winch-off" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Wouldn't the 8000lb rating refer to the first layer pull max ability? with standard motor. add x2 the power and surely it will pull more than 8000lb on the first layer. the 9500 Warn uses the same XP motor but different ratio Gearbox the force required to overcome the static load is a given with twice the power available more turning force is available IMHO speed of drum aside at this point. all supposition I'm afraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I guess that the torque of the motor is more important than the power when considering available pulling power? The winch is rated to pull 8000lb on the first layer of rope, like many things, that does not mean that the rating cannot be exceeded... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 The 8274 has lower gearing than the 9.5 XP. The XP has a rating of 9500lbs so an 8274 with the same motor is going to have a greater pulling capacity than the XP. So for each layer of rope the 8274 with an XP motor is going to have a greater pulling capacity than a 9.5 XP. Not sure what difference in gearing is to XP, I'm sure someone could work it out, but an 8274 with an XP motor is going to be more than 9500lbs. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 one for Jim M or Paul W I think - they've done more with them than anyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I guess that the torque of the motor is more important than the power when considering available pulling power? The winch is rated to pull 8000lb on the first layer of rope, like many things, that does not mean that the rating cannot be exceeded...Chris Motor torque has to be what defines the maximum pull. A 6HP XP motor COULD well just provide a similar torque level to a standard motor at twice or three times the shaft speed to an old 2.1HP, on the other hand it may provide a lot more torque (I have no idea). So as Moglite says if you stick 4000lb on the hook it might travel at 2x the speed under that load but the stall could be similar. It's a shame the motor manufacturers don't provide power/torque curves so you could compare, say, a Bowmotor with an XP one, which would let users decide what they want i.e. speed or oooooomph. And decide which one might tie their winch gearbox in a knot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 The 8274 has lower gearing than the 9.5 XP. The XP has a rating of 9500lbs so an 8274 with the same motor is going to have a greater pulling capacity than the XP.So for each layer of rope the 8274 with an XP motor is going to have a greater pulling capacity than a 9.5 XP. Not sure what difference in gearing is to XP, I'm sure someone could work it out, but an 8274 with an XP motor is going to be more than 9500lbs. Steve The gearing of the 8274 may be lower, but does that include the drum diameter? The 8274 has a fat drum compared to many lowline winches which in effect makes it higher geared and this is one of the reasons even a standard 8274 is resonably quick at no/low load. I understand some people have broke 8274's with XP motors on them so I guess the torque produced by this motor is higher than the standard original 8274 motor and hence is generating a greater pull. Be interesting to see some actual test figures for a range of motors on an 8274. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 It's a shame the motor manufacturers don't provide power/torque curves so you could compare, say, a Bowmotor with an XP one, which would let users decide what they want i.e. speed or oooooomph. And decide which one might tie their winch gearbox in a knot dont get facts in the way of a good sales pitch though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 the people that break gearboxes are they the ones who flick the switch to try and stop the winch turning? this is what I've been told can break the gearbox. this is a common thing I watch people do when they want to stop/reverse the winch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 With hydraulics you can calculate these numbers as the motor manufacturers publish excellent, RPM, & torque graphs based on flow & pressure Why……… my coat………… thank you Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 the people that break gearboxesare they the ones who flick the switch to try and stop the winch turning? this is what I've been told can break the gearbox. this is a common thing I watch people do when they want to stop/reverse the winch. It could damage it - at a push - but the torque you are putting in to the gearbox to stop the drum rotating by 'flicking the switch' is trivial compared to the stall torque of the winch. The load will be exagerated by the shock of taking up the backlash in the gears - but this will be minimal as the motor should be in over-run at that point. If you repeatedly flicked it forwards & backwards - possibly, but I think your contactor would die first. I consider this an urban myth! (I do it occasionally - but try not to). Above, you are confusing the rated load with the actual pulling force. They are quite different! The rated pull is what it can do safely. A fairly average series wound motor can produce a stall torque of 20ftLb The gearing is 134:1 so the torque generated at the drum will be about 20 x 143 = 2860 ftLb. The drum has a diameter of say 3", so a radius of 1.5" or 0.125 ft. The pull on the first wrap is thus: 2860 ftlbs / 0.125 = 22880 lbs This is reduced some by the losses in the transmission - but is probably more accurate than the 8000lb rated pull. If you were to go from say a 4Hp motor to a 6Hp, it does not necessarily mean that you will get 50% more torque. You may get 50% more no-load speed and no additional torque - or somewhere inbetween. Most of the winch motor manufacturers quote power and max rpm. If you want more torque, go for similar or reduced rpm and higher power and if you want more speed go for higher rpm and higher power. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 so Ian if you stick the two power leads off an 8274 into some SAE 32 (edited out ATF) is it hydraulic powered then??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 gearbox breakage info from Mr gigglepin I avoid flicking the switch to stop/reverse the winch nowdays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 so Ian if you stick the two power leads off an 8274 into some ATF is it hydraulic powered then??? ATF is sooooooo yesterday ............... currently using sureflow SAE 32 Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 i knew that!!! thats waht i said wasn't it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D9OSV Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Not so much gearbox breakages when flicking the switch....... The big problem when flicking the switch forward and backwards is the two fold. First it tends to break the motor location dowl that then allows the motor casing /housing to spin, thus touching the armature and BOOM... And on the prototpye twin motor winches stripping teeth on the input gear, as the winch is going from 130ft per min + to 0 in the less than the blink of an eye.... Hardly suprising really..... Will be doing accurate field trails for power speed and torque in the early new year, Looking forward to it, just to dispel the rumours....And to satisfy my curiosity Should really start a book, you know what motor? what speed? What Torque etc...... Should be very intresting. I remember reading astudy done by some Proffesor dude, who did this in the late 90's, Electirc winches where less than impressive and not producing anything like the manufactures figures. But we don't know all the facts....Yet Regards Jim Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Jim - is it possible to hassle the manufacturers for torque figures? and any accredited test standards to weed out the PR from the tech? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D9OSV Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 To be fair Jez, I think they guess a number and double it XP motor 6horse power....???? In your dreams, more like 3HP, But it's like people who tell you that there 3.9 efi is producing 3580.000,000bhp after fitting a new cam and air filter.. You just have to make your own mind up..... Hence the test after Christmas, i want facts not ficition. No matter how much it hurts Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 A fairly average series wound motor can produce a stall torque of 20ftLbThe gearing is 134:1 so the torque generated at the drum will be about 20 x 143 = 2860 ftLb. The drum has a diameter of say 3", so a radius of 1.5" or 0.125 ft. The pull on the first wrap is thus: 2860 ftlbs / 0.125 = 22880 lbs Si I don't doubt your maths is correct but there is no way any 8274 winch I have had experience with could exert anywhere near that kind of pulling power, safely or otherwise. That is why I use a mechanically driven power take off winch, which does what it says on the tin and more. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 But it's like people who tell you that there 3.9 efi is producing 3580.000,000bhp after fitting a new cam and air filter.. I cant live with a drop in horsepower like that - I'll stick to my 2meg Horse diesels, you only need to change the air filter to get that out of an Isuzu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Jez, you could move into the GigaHorse realm with the simple addition of a couple of neons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espen Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techarticles/...608_jeep_winch/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 To be fair Jez, I think they guess a number and double it XP motor 6horse power....???? In your dreams, more like 3HP, But it's like people who tell you that there 3.9 efi is producing 3580.000,000bhp after fitting a new cam and air filter.. You just have to make your own mind up..... Hence the test after Christmas, i want facts not ficition. No matter how much it hurts Jim If you do the sums you'd almost certainly find they mean it consumes about 6hp in terms of volts x amps disappearing in to the motor at maximum load, but I bet several of the horses stray before they come out the other end Is 50% efficiency about right for a leccy motor? Edited to say yep 6hp is about 370 amps at 12 volts, if me maths are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Yes, but electric motor horsepower ratings should be given in output power, not input power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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