Nigelw Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 After the weekend outing with mixed bags of all marques and models, I came to this conclusion. The only thing that makes a difference is drivers. I sailed through everything in the Disco that other drivers were getting stuck in, not due to any type of inferiority, just because they had a different driving style and approach to the obsticals. Drivers make or break this discussion, I think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 After the weekend outing with mixed bags of all marques and models, I came to this conclusion. The only thing that makes a difference is drivers. I sailed through everything in the Disco that other drivers were getting stuck in, not due to any type of inferiority, just because they had a different driving style and approach to the obsticals. Drivers make or break this discussion, I think? Or as I often say.....Driver ability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Not really, put the same driver in different cars and which gets further? Still a valid discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Yes thats true Ed, but then it comes down to familliarity of you and your vehicle, I know my vehicle and have driven similar terrain many times, does that give me an advantage? Of course, but why would I try to drive another vehicle with potentially different suspension, CoG or tyres than my own in exactly the same way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 it doesnt. taking it off first does. That depends if you want to drive round in a vehicle that looks like it has just been involved in an accident or is half built. The old D1 could be de-spoilered and still look OK, you can't really say the same about most of the newer stuff. Fine if you only want to use it off road or are prepared to spend Friday night with spanners before being silly on a weekend and then Sunday night putting it all back on again; I'm not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 That depends if you want to drive round in a vehicle that looks like it has just been involved in an accident or is half built. The old D1 could be de-spoilered and still look OK, you can't really say the same about most of the newer stuff. Fine if you only want to use it off road or are prepared to spend Friday night with spanners before being silly on a weekend and then Sunday night putting it all back on again; I'm not. I've seen plenty of photos of Discovery 3/4s with aftermarket replacement steel parts to protect the expensive bodywork and that doesn't need to get replaced during the week. It's exactly what owners of most Jap stuff have to do to protect their vehicles and it has been happening for years. Image considerations aside (which are a trivial side-track for those who require ability over looks), such a vehicle will still make a very nice road car. I think, though, that this thread has highlighted the not-so obvious. There are vehicles deliberately targeted at a market which requires the vehicle to be used in physically tough conditions. These include Defenders and a range of military vehicles but precious few civilian vehicles (even the Suzuki Jimny has gone soft now, though you can still buy a fairly functional version of Toyota's Land Cruiser). Other four-wheel-drive vehicles have the potential to be as good or even much better than a standard Defender off-road. All of these need some bolt-on help to do that without problems but so what, even a Defender does a lot better with some sensible steelwork, slightly taller tyres and some sort of traction control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Drivers make or break this discussion, I think?Well 100% yes if it's a competition or like you were, out with a group. But if you are talking the same driver, then I suppose different people might get on better with certain vehicles. But the vehicle must contribute largely too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 You need a driver with the ability to assess a vehicles limitations quickly. That driver then needs to be good enough to work around those limitations. A really good driver can then make the vehicle look good and not show up the limitations. Those are the guys and girls who get to work for the car manufacturers on new releases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I've seen plenty of photos of Discovery 3/4s with aftermarket replacement steel parts to protect the expensive bodywork and that doesn't need to get replaced during the week. It's exactly what owners of most Jap stuff have to do to protect their vehicles and it has been happening for years. Image considerations aside (which are a trivial side-track for those who require ability over looks), such a vehicle will still make a very nice road car. One word: money Have you seen how much an ARB bumper costs? You can take a factory Defender - even now - and put a tow hitch and a decent set of tyres on it and basically go anywhere. Everything else is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Have you seen how much an ARB bumper costs? I know how much - I used to have one on my two previous Land Rovers (same bumper!). Still trivial next to the cost of a D3/4. The point I made stands... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 You can take a factory Defender - even now - and put a tow hitch and a decent set of tyres on it and basically go anywhere. Everything else is optional. I still find it hilarious that a tow hitch is an optional extra on a Defender... Why they can't just do a NAS / L322 style 2" receiver tucked up nice and out of the way and have it as standard. Cost I suspect, although that could easily be integrated into the rear cross-member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I still find it hilarious that a tow hitch is an optional extra on a Defender... Why they can't just do a NAS / L322 style 2" receiver tucked up nice and out of the way and have it as standard. Cost I suspect, although that could easily be integrated into the rear cross-member. Ah but what would they put on? A 50mm ball? Nato? Jaw and pin? Crossmember or drop plate? I take the ball off every tow kit I buy and throw it in the corner. Just done the same with the new Shogun, having had to specify a different towing bracket just so I could. Lots of different tow hitches for lots of different applications with a Defender. We have four vehicles in this house, and I have NATO hitches on the two Defenders plus a detachable Southdown bracket on one, and combination hitches on the Ranger and Shogun. I currently have five trailers with three different sorts of hitch (NATO on the Sankey, three 50mm balls and one civilian ring coupling). None of the hitches I use at the moment would have been standard fit - I quite like the freedom of choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 That's why a 2" receiver is so handy, just plug in whatever you need, and off you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I agree on the point of flexibility but I find it rather ironic that for a Defender a tow hitch is something like an £800 optional extra. I feel you should be given the choice when you buy it without having to incur extra cost - hence a 2" receiver is a nice design because you can just plug in the appropriate hitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I still find it hilarious that a tow hitch is an optional extra on a Defender... Why they can't just do a NAS / L322 style 2" receiver tucked up nice and out of the way and have it as standard. Cost I suspect, although that could easily be integrated into the rear cross-member. Moot point now given that the last Defenders are soon to be rolling off the production line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Moot point now given that the last Defenders are soon to be rolling off the production line. But the point still holds for the L322 etc, they don't come with tow-bars or the armature as standard. Wishful thinking but perhaps the replacement for the Defender will have a 2" receiver as standard... If they wanted to make it truly versatile then they could have one front and back. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I agree on the point of flexibility but I find it rather ironic that for a Defender a tow hitch is something like an £800 optional extra. I feel you should be given the choice when you buy it without having to incur extra cost - hence a 2" receiver is a nice design because you can just plug in the appropriate hitch. I've never bought a factory towing kit - are they really £800? That's ridiculous. I see where you are coming from with the receiver idea now. Good idea. I was thinking that it would just be a plug-in ball (a bit like the D3/D4 has) but as long as you could get something with the standard 4xM12 / 2xM16 bolt patterns on a flange, it could actually work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I often wondered how after market steel bumpers effected the ecu in terms of parking sensors, air bag sensors, additional lighting, automatic tow bars / electrics etc etc. Do they have to be coded out or do you transfer the fittings to the new vehicle? And what do they do for the pedestrian crash test rating? I cant imagine an airbag on the bonnet does much for the pedestrian after theyve been over an arb bull bar. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I've never bought a factory towing kit - are they really £800? That's ridiculous. I see where you are coming from with the receiver idea now. Good idea. I was thinking that it would just be a plug-in ball (a bit like the D3/D4 has) but as long as you could get something with the standard 4xM12 / 2xM16 bolt patterns on a flange, it could actually work well. I think I remember it being something like that from JLR for the Defender. I know if you went to JLR for a 322 it was similar. I got mine from PF Jones who source it from Westfalia, same unit but with a £500 discount.I got a "farmer's" hitch which is basically a 2" bar welded to a 8mm plate with the usual 6 M12 bolt holes. Very nice and simple. Thinking of building a winch cradle for it etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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