Jasra Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 On 6th Feb in pouring rain I was driving home when a car aquaplaned into a ditch half a mile in front of me on the single carriageway. I stopped with all lights on the Defender including hazards. Lined up for the tow and was attaching the tow line when a Fiesta doing 45 mph approx drove strait into the drivers door of the Defender. There were no skid marks so it was 45 to zero courtesy of the defender. Police and ambulance plus accident investigation and I was found not at fault.Police gave me Fiesta drivers and insurance details. RAC recovered Defender home about 2 miles. Aegis insurance guy inspected next morning and said"total loss". Local 4x4 garage collected Defender examined and concurred estimated £12,500 - £15,000 for repair. Here is the problem. In January 2015 the Defender was overhauled and many old parts were changed for high quality replacement parts as follows: Richards galvanised chassis Old Man Emu Medium Duty Nitrocharger Shocks and 4 Springs. Old Man Emu Defender 90/110 Steering Damper Terrafirma Stainless Steel Braided Brake Hoses +50mm Length for Defender 90/110 99 - 04 with Abs Britpart Super-Heavy Duty Clutch Kit for TD5 Disc Handbrake Conversion - Defender Suspension Bush Kit - Genuine Land Rover Full Exhaust System - Td5 Diesel 90 - Stainless Steel All this equipment is still on the Defender and the parts cost alone came to £4,517. Invoices are available to support this expenditure all of which improved the market price of the vehicle. Also the Defender is a limited addition X-Tech model, again commanding a premium price. Searching Autotrader yesterday for similar vehicles produced the following vehicles, details attached for your review: 1999 Defender 90 2.5 Td5 £11,895 2001 Defender 90 2.5 Td5 £14,995 2002 Defender 90 2.5 Td5 £12,250 None of these vehicles has a galvanised chassis or the suspension upgrades fitted to my vehicle. There are many similar vehicles in this price range. I also understand from my garage that the local Land Rover salvage company has offered for the vehicle, in its current damaged condition £7,000 on an as is where is basis. In the circumstances I am unable to accept the market value the Insurance company propose of £8795. Grateful for comments as to what I should do next. I am intending to buy another Defender 90 of similar age but guess it will be too expensive to strip the old car of the suspension parts, even if the insurance company would permit same. Thanks for any comments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supaimpy Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 well as its the 3rd parties insurance footing the bill and not yours you can insist on it being repaired, that's the jist of one of the editorials I read a short while ago in one of the monthly magazines. sure someone else will have a copy of the article they could put up to give you the correct statement to pass to insurers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 My experience is that they have to have you accept the offer - so don't. Send them all the examples you can of more expensive comparable models and copies of receipts etc etc The difficulty can be that if you're without a car it feels like they draw it out to pressure you into accepting their offer. It doesn't help that the guide a lot of insurers use for valuation has ridiculously low values for Defenders. Hope it works out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Our good friend, Mr. Frank Elson, did a write up on this some time ago in LRM and prepare yourself for a good old fashioned battle. It will not be easy but have a fight and get all the legal you can get. Bon Courage ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasra Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Many thanks for the advice and I am fortunate to have a back-up car for non-Defender journeys! I am ready for the fight as I want my X-Tech back if at all possible. If anyone has a link to Mr Frank Elson's article that would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Claim off the Fiesta drivers insurance not yours if you are proven to not be at fault. They cannot write your car off and have to repair it regardless of cost if that is what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 As has already been said. Make sure you claim off the Fiesta driver so he/ she has to claim off their insurance. Please don't claim off your own insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 For expediency, and because it is one of the services one pays for with fully comp insurance, one usually claims on one's own insurance and they then make a full reclaim through the third party - they sort you out immediately and then do the claiming work for you. You will not be disadvantaged by this, unless renewal comes before the full reclaim, when they will have to regard it as an unsettled claim - just as it would be if you were claiming from the third party in person. Don't settle for anything less than an equivalent car to that you have lost. That is how insurance works, show them some examples of similar cars for sale at dealers and tell them that you expect to be able to buy one of those. They will offer you a low payout in the hope that they can save money and you will accept in desperation for a new car. Dig your heels in, but you need to be sure that a court will agree with you when presented with the facts - don't try to pull a fast one. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Did you have an agreed valuation with your insurer ?.Very important when it comes to making a claim . A friend had his 110 written off by an errant vw golf ,it had galv chassis ,auto box ,300 tdi,newer body ,new tyres etc but was on a B reg ,they offered him a pittance but he dug his heals in and got the correct value in the end ,I have had the same experience with a claim on a burnt out tractor ,when i told the insurance assesor what i valued it at he said no way ,I told him to find me a direct replacement or pay me exactly what I was asking ,I got the full amount . James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasra Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Thanks for the foregoing, I have already claimed this incident on my fully comp insurance with Ageas through the Post Office. I have pointed out that the police investigator found 100% the Fiesta was to blame and my insurance should claim on the Fiesta drivers policy. Tempted to buy the nearest replacement but then I will be beholden to Ageas so guess its time to be patient and resolute! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasra Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 No agreed value as the policy clearly states market value, hence the reason I posted to them three ads from Autotrader to demonstrate the value Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Early90 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I see you fitted a Britpart clutch kit, that does not add value. One would have to factor in the cost of replacement quite soon. Regarding your other problem you should have no issues getting it repaired or the value you want. My B reg. 90 was hit a few years ago, Ford focus decided to write itself off against my rear o/s wheel. Repair included a new rim, new tyre, new axle case and stub axle,Trailing arms, bushes , brake lines etc, body repair to rear wing and the whole wing resprayed. Quite an expensive repair for a nearly 30 yr old vehicle at the time. I had a home visit from the other parties vehicle inspector, showed him rebuild pics and receipts and chose my own repairer. He told me that they could not write my vehicle off, only negotiate. That is my experience. Good luck John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasra Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 Many thanks John for your experience and feel heartened by this. Despite my openness in providing ads of similar vehicles, they are arguing my mileage was higher 90k v 130k and claiming they have a specialist guide book for rare vehicles! They haven't provided me with copies of any ads for similar vehicles or the engineers report (which was a two minute walk around on my drive!) on which they are basing their valuation. I am refusing their offer and waiting for the next move. Phillip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMB Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I'm afraid that you've experienced standard practice. Ask for a copy of the relevant pages of their specialist guide book (including interpolation factors and condition guides). Challenge the validity of the guide book if not a general industry guide. Phone up the publishers of the guide and ask questions about regional variations and modifications. State that financial ombudsman guidelines require that any offer of compensation must be based on forecourt prices - ie what you would have to pay to a specialist garage. They'll probably claim that their guide is a confidential trade guide and therefore not releasable. If they do, refuse to accept anything based on it - they should be prepared to provide any details in support of their offer in the same way as you are required to jump through hoops for your claim. Likewise insist on a copy of the engineers report, then go through it and challenge errors, omissions etc. If they won't budge sufficiently on their offer, challenge them to find an equivalent vehicle and purchase on your behalf in respect of that part of your claim. If assessed as in equivalent condition by a specialist assessor then you'd accept it. They'll probably respond that it is not their business and it would take too much time - your response, they're expecting you to spend that time and not compensating for it. Keep telling them that their offer is unacceptable. Quote the company mission statement, advertising etc back at them. Reply by return, if only an acknowledgement of receipt and advice that you will respond in detail later. Every time that you write, your file gets back to the top of the pile. Don't give in. At the moment you are probably dealing with a junior claims assessor. At some point they will either start repeating themselves, contradicting themselves or pass it to a more senior assessor. That is your chance to force a deal. If it is not escalated internally, escalate it yourself - start copying to customer service and complaint depts etc. Name and shame the company on forums such as this, keep the thread up to date. At some point someone will inject some sense into the negotiation and realise how much this claim is costing them in admin and potentially lost business. Can you tell that I've been there before? Fortunately on behalf of my daughter, but for a 13 year old car. The publishers of Glass's guide were very helpful in giving some idea of regional variations etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 That's a great post AMB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Agreed, perhaps worth making up some kind of post for the tech archive? I dont have much to add having never been in the situation personally only i hope you get it sorted in a satisfactory manner. Will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktdi Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 From reading franks cover of this in lrm the first mistake you made was claiming off your insurance . They can wright off your car . If you had claimed direct of the driver at fault you are then the third party and they can not wright your car off they have to repair it regardless of cost . I hope you can get this sorted . Your other option is to ask them for an offer where you keep the car and get a payout then you can use the money to repair the defender . My uncle did this and it worked out the best deal , and he got to keep the vehicle he new and trusted . I belive they call it a for salvage settlement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasra Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 Thanks for the comments marktdi. After much negotiating and contacting the financial ombudsman, I have accepted their valuation of £9k plus retaining the damaged vehicle. I have bought a replacement Td5 CSW, slightly newer at 2006 with similar mileage. The question I need to answer is whether it is worthwhile taking the one year old upgrades off the damaged vehicle viz, Old Man Emu Medium Duty Nitrocharger Shocks and 4 Springs, Old Man Emu Defender 90/110 Steering Damper, Terrafirma Stainless Steel Braided Brake Hoses, Disc Handbrake Conversion and Full stainless steel Exhaust System? Would need to ask my local 4x4 garage to do the switch. Is it worth paying to fit the original bits from the new Td5 back on the damaged and now Cat B written off vehicle? Also any ideas on the best way to sell the damaged vehicle for parts? Damaged defender is 2000 Td5 X-Tech. Obviously the galvanised chassis can't be swapped. All comments gratefully received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 I wouldn't waste time putting anything onto a Cat B right off, sell the spare bits from the new TD5 yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasra Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 Thanks for the comment ejparrott and will be guided accordingly. Anyone have a recommended buyer for the vehicle and parts based in the Gloucester area who may have an interest in the 2000 X-Tech Defender Td5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 CWS ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasra Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 Not yet a member with enough to posts to access the For Sale forum. Any recommendations as to how I can market the 2000 Defender 90 X-Tech for sale as parts, including the one year old Richards galvanised chassis (damaged) ? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasra Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 CWS ? sorry, CSW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasra Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 sorry, CSW windows in the back, four inward facing leather seats, central locking,heated leather front seats,electric windows, no bulkhead between front and back. Not really a Defender at all ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diablo Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 I think he meant cws, as in: http://www.cws4x4.co.uk/latest-breakers or have you heard of ebay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.