simonr Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 There have been lots of threads on all the forums seeking the elusive ZF74 pump from a variety of different vehicles - and as far as I can see, there isn't one! The general conclusion seems to be that either 'ZF74' was made up by Alfred Murray to describe another pump or that it's one only used for industrial purposes and was never fitted to a car. Based on experience or specification, what ordinary cars, the kind you'd find at a breakers yard, have high output pumps? Not necessarily in the same territory as a ZF74, but higher than a Land Rover? People have talked about 'Can of Ham' pumps being good - but what were they fitted to in the UK? I thought this might be a useful thread for people wanting to go hydraulic for steering, ram-assist, rear steer - or even winching. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 I wonder if looking into the realms of HGV's maybe?? or do they have ram-assist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Good thread. I have one or two ZF74s, and yes, it was hard to fathom where they are from originally. Perhaps adding the contact details for A.M. would be good? (I don't have them). Also, does anyone actually know the specs for these? So we can actually compare things. I am going to run power steering, a hydraulic crane and an H14 winch off mine, so I hope its up to it! Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 ZF was fitted to BMWs 12ltrs per min, flat rate output from 800rpm, 120bar, for its size and cost Ive not found anything to beat them (yet) a "tuned" the can of ham is no better, much bigger and harder to get parts for. if you need US origin high flow pumps then give Squeeky Sean a bell, he can rattle off (US) GPMs for almost every pump ever made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 pump from an LS1 flows 13l/min at 100psi- can be tweaked up if needed to around 18l/min (usually people go the other way though- for race car apps they want to reduce the flow to reduce the drag on the motor) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 Jez, any idea which BM's? Or how to ID the 'right' pump on a car? I wanted to concentrate on which cars you should look for at a scrappy more than which supplier will sell you an off the shelf solution. Anyone could go to Alfred Murray amongst others and give him a credit card number - but for many, that's not possible. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 FWIW, I run a 9000 lbs MileMarker on a canned ham pump from a Chevy pickup truck, bought from a scrapper. On an homemade mount where the AC pump normally sits. It makes the winch run as per its technical data, no more no less. After all, this is the kind of pump the winch was constructed for. Apart from US cars, I think this pump also was used on older Saab 900. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Come on Steve I see you're a typing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callum Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 pump found on an isuzu trooper operates at 83.4 bar. no data on flow rate i'm afraid, but it made stering noticably lighter than witha land rover pump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milemarker Type S Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 I originally ran my Milemarker from a pump I removed from a scrap 7 series BMW as advised by Allan at Alfred Murray it was a LUX LR68 which produces 130bar- I was unable to find any figures for the flow rate (When I phoned LUX their technical helpline was less than helpful!) The winch ran a bit slower than it did when I changed to a ZF74 pump so the flow must be slightly less but not by a massive amount... To give you some idea the line speed at the drum was 3'4"/min with the LF68 and 4'1"/minute with the ZF74- I am sure BBC could probably work out the exact flow rate of the LF68 from these figures... My fag packet calculation would suggest that the LF68 gives about 82% of the flow of the ZF74 (quoted at 13L/min) which suggests the LF68 gives about 10.5L/min...ish??? I would assume that all 7 series BMW's PAS pumps would be to about the same spec? Allan also suggested some of the larger Mercedes cars as well... though my local scrappy was not posh enough for one of those!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 Some really good info there! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I have never measured the line speed at the drum, but after having changed the pump from an old Saginaw to the newer canned ham version I did a test by pulling out a few metres of line. The pulling speed, at engine idle, was approx 3 m per minute or 10 feet. Which also is what MileMarker states on their web site. My conclusion was that the pump was just about right for my use. Which doesn't include any winching races... I can add that my pump is a little tweaked by installing a small washer and some grinding on the release valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Your probably aware that the racing boys drill there PAS pumps to get much more flow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted April 24, 2008 Author Share Posted April 24, 2008 Your probably aware that the racing boys drill there PAS pumps to get much more flow... Do you happen to know how to do it? Or is it a secret amongst racers? What about pumps which are going to be available from any scrappy? I agree 7 series BM's and bigger Mercs are not common. What about other 4x4's or vans? Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Those can of ham pumps are as cheap as chips in Oz fitted to nearly all fords, and quite a few holdens. If you have any contacts over there it would be well worth getting them to post you one. HTSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted April 24, 2008 Author Share Posted April 24, 2008 I'm not actually looking for one for myself - it was just to try & bring together some of the info out there as there appear to be a lot of people going down the ram assist steer etc route. The standard LR pump is not quite up to it, but a ZF pump is often overkill - and expensive. I hoped that a thread like this would be a useful resource for anyone venturing down that path. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeyRover Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I Have a milemarker on a RR pump, Which is rubbish in that configuration you'll all not be surprised to hear. The MM is US spec as I posted it to myself from there while on holiday in Florida. Well actually went to the manufacturer site in search of a good deal, waste of time, had to buy it from the garage across the road. £450 for full spec. plus £150 for postage. I always had this idea in the back of my mind that a citroen hydraulic pump from the xm or bx with hydro suspension would be good, surely they need big flow and pressure? Tried to do some research on it, but not too good in french... Edit Found this though which makes it seem interesting Hydraulic Fluid Green LHM fluid High Pressure PumpType Five piston volumetric Operating speed Half engine speed Output per pump cycle 4 cc Pressure Regulator Cut-out pressure 170 ± 5 bar (2465 ± 72 lbf/sq in) Cut-in pressure 145 ± 5 bar (2103 ± 72 lbf/sq in) at 3000 rpm i make it a flow rate of 3000/2 * 4 cc = 6 lpm which seems a bit on the low side for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I've just given up and bought a new ZF74 of Alfred Murray (this number does not exist with ZF and is a dreamt up number I presume) anyway it is identical to another ZF unit I've just replaced which came of a big Poxhaul Omega, the only physical difference I could find without a major stripdown is the output boss hole, which was 2.5mm Vauxhall and just over 4mm "ZF74", easy drill out the cheap scrap yard one. Is what is meant by drilling the PAS pump out?, if it is its very easy just remove the boss 27mm socket, drill clean and replace, sounds to easy that one! Anyway from what I can gather 3 and 5 series BMW's especially diesel versions use high output ZF pumps, is this where the elusive "ZF74" comes from? I've not noticed a massive difference between second hand used Omega, and brand new ZF74 on a standard steering box, but in all fairness its not moved out of the garage and settled yet. "ZF74" is supposed to be 12.5 litres per min at 120 bar, revs ? Clockwise rotation from the front, find out what Omega and BMW are and you have your answer! Challenge for the weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Do you happen to know how to do it? Or is it a secret amongst racers? What about pumps which are going to be available from any scrappy? I agree 7 series BM's and bigger Mercs are not common. What about other 4x4's or vans? Si I haven't done it myself I will look into it as its drilling the inlet or outlet but I will check be for I give you duff info when the quick rack the steering get so much heavier so they drill them to make it easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 This is a link to a US company with a "how to upgrade a ps pump". west texas something Relates to GM pumps but the principle is explained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Pumps that are exactly the same style as the 'ZF74' are found on 1.9 diesel Passats and Merc vans of mid to late 90's vintage....... Whether the internals are the same I know not.......... but I would guess that they are...... Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush65 Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 landmannnn's link shows the common mods to saginaw PS pumps. This pic from Pirate shows similar mods for improving flow and pressure from Rover PS pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted April 26, 2008 Author Share Posted April 26, 2008 Great info chaps! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_d Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Great info chaps!Si Damn he's quick. Get your x-pumps here. High spec, much better than orange ones, come on now you know you want one. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Is this a zf74 pump..........? it has bmw on the plate Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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