Popular Post elbekko Posted March 6 Popular Post Share Posted March 6 Cam run-in in progress Looks like the injectors were a bit clogged. We ended up putting some petrol in the intake with a syringe, and off she went, and then started running better and better 20240306_190442_1.mp4 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Excellent news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 That video can't be right, where's the loud clicking noises that you can't track down? 😡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 10 minutes ago, ThreePointFive said: That video can't be right, where's the loud clicking noises that you can't track down? 😡 There are some very nice clicking noises, and we're fairly sure they're just from the special lifters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 3 minutes ago, elbekko said: There are some very nice clicking noises, and we're fairly sure they're just from the special lifters Rhoads? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 2 hours ago, Bowie69 said: Rhoads? Where they're going they don't need rhoads... Sorry, I'll see myself out. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 A huge thanks to @elbekko for all his help and for pushing me onwards when I lost motivation! And to all of you on here thinking along or just crossing their fingers. In short: as playing around with the fueling settings didn't seem to make much difference (worse if any), I took a step back and listed what was different from the trial run in the other Range. Fuel pump for one, so we checked the pressure (after cobbling together a gauge that would fit). Close enough, so there was definitely pressured fuel in the rail. That only left the injectors. Rather than take off the manifold to get to them, I decided to do what I would do with an engine on carbs and spray some petrol in the intake. And that obviously did the trick. Still a lot of finishing up to do, but at least now we know we're getting somewhere. 🙂 I'll probably take out the injectors when I tidy up the wiring loom and get them tested/cleaned, just to be sure. But first I want to drive her up and down the street! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 That's good to hear! With modern petrol, lots of ethanol in it, if you have all eight firing now and you use it regularly you won't have a problem with the injectors, they very likely only got stuck because they dried out while sitting. I've had two sets of injectors cleaned in my life, and in both cases I have had one fail within a year - my conclusion is it is just not worth it. One failed wide open, the other failed shorting the whole bank to the block, opening up all four wide open.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 We had some running issues with a 3.5 I rebuilt for an RRC under restoration. We couldn't get it to run consistently on all 8, getting worse when up to temperature. We first tested the injectors ourselves, by putting 12V on each one in turn. 2 were obviously bad, the others seemed a bit inconsistent. I had them tested and cleaned, along with 2 spare ones, which confirmed 2 were beyond saving but also a few others that were leaking. We got a good set of 8 back and she ran sweetly with those. That was also in an engine that had been sitting for a few years. I hope the owner can finish the restoration soon enough, before they get a chance to clog up again. He has just found a place to work on it closer to home, so we're planning to move it there by the end of the month. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 I use fuel stabiliser now for all the club outboards, 4 strokes can give trouble after just 3 weeks doing nothing, I recommend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Interesting... just done a quick search and the particular one we use isn't available, but there are at least a dozen new products that weren't there a year ago when we first looked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 I think sitting, especially sitting dry, does injectors no favours - the ones on the 109 did the same when we first built it. These days if I take injectors off to store them I'll squirt something down them like a light oil or similar that won't evaporate. As ever - MS can't solve mechanical issues, and always go back to the basics rather than deeper down the rabbit hole! Glad you're up and running. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 51 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said: As ever - MS can't solve mechanical issues, and always go back to the basics rather than deeper down the rabbit hole! Glad you're up and running. Yeah, but having a new engine build combined with MS makes it difficult to tell where the problem actually is. Ideally you'd do one change at a time, but that wasn't really an option in this case, sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 22 minutes ago, elbekko said: Yeah, but having a new engine build combined with MS makes it difficult to tell where the problem actually is. Ideally you'd do one change at a time, but that wasn't really an option in this case, sadly. I wasn't accusing you of anything - just pointing out your success was based on doing exactly that: stepping back, looking at the basics and applying a bit of logic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 I can't believe it's been almost a month already since we got her running. In between stuff I soldered the wiring and tidied up some other bits and bobs. The clutch proved a bit problematic, a normal bleed didn't work, the pedal not returning. Reverse bleeding with a big syringe did result in a hard pedal. A very hard pedal, that needed a lot of force, then something seemed to free and it stayed down again. But could be pumped up and finally gave a good feel. Probably something that got stuck by sitting. Yesterday evening @elbekko came over and gave me a hand bleeding the brakes. After that nothing it was finally time for the first drive. After over 10 years! (5 sitting and 5 being rebuilt) Starting was difficult, I had to inject some petrol in the intake to get her to come to live again. At first very rough, but she pulled through. I fear the injectors are still not as they should be. I'll try running a bottle of cleaner but I'll probably pull them for testing/cleaning/replacement at some point. The drive was a success though. 😎 Tachometer working (my bad, I got the wires mixed up before), pulling very nicely and even idling without an IACV. The clutch was fine too. Too bad I didn't get 'round to the EAS, so it was very bumpy and we had to keep the speed low. And the Rhoads are very loud at idle... A lot to finish up, but with the misses out on holiday, I can spend even more time in the Workshop over the next week. Phoenix should be on the road by the end of this month. 🙂 Two more big things to do: enlarge the wheel wells to fit the 285/85 Baja Claws and rebuild the burned out Milemarker (plus build and fit a winch bumper and plumb in all the hydraulics). But I'm planning to use her before that, and get some tuning done. A mate promised me a wide-band lambda, that could prove very useful! Filip 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 It was good to finally take Phoenix out for a drive I hope we can get the fuelling situation sorted out, the lambda didn't seem to be doing much, and the autotune suggested chucking in ~50% more fuel, which seems excessive. Maybe it just needs to be burned clean, even after playing with req_fuel it stayed around 0.22v, even when triggering acceleration enrichment. She sounds damn good though! Except for those lifters, it just sounds broken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 This is good news, but we desperately need some pic or preferably video once she is not sat on the bump stops 16 minutes ago, elbekko said: She sounds damn good though! Except for those lifters, it just sounds broken Yes, they do, especially when the oil is really hot, you get used to them though. Sounds like your lambda is pretty unhappy, the wide-band makes things so much easier for tuning, if you have an offer of one I would take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 She's not on the bump stops, I added wooden blocks so she wouldn't look so sad. 😄 I'll sort the EAS this week. And post a picture. And I'll definitely take the offer of the wide band. Only problem is, we need to take it out of an Alpine R5 and the owner is in France for the rest of the month still. But we'll get there. 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Just remember that sensors - especially lambda sensors - can be easily confused by stuff that is not as they were expecting. For example your temperature gauge is not accurate if all the coolant falls out, and Lambda sensors are very easily damaged or clogged up or just confused. Excess unburnt fuel, burnt oil or coolant going down the exhaust can clog them up and "blind" them, and exhaust leaks throw them wildly off (because they're measuring oxygen and a leak means air gets sucked in). If it smells rich, it's rich, even if the lambda sensor has gone blind and is swearing you need 50% more fuel - trust your nose and the seat of your pants! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 25 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said: Just remember that sensors - especially lambda sensors - can be easily confused by stuff that is not as they were expecting. For example your temperature gauge is not accurate if all the coolant falls out, and Lambda sensors are very easily damaged or clogged up or just confused. Excess unburnt fuel, burnt oil or coolant going down the exhaust can clog them up and "blind" them, and exhaust leaks throw them wildly off (because they're measuring oxygen and a leak means air gets sucked in). If it smells rich, it's rich, even if the lambda sensor has gone blind and is swearing you need 50% more fuel - trust your nose and the seat of your pants! I know, hence why I don't trust what it's saying. Plus the injectors are still a bit of an unknown, might be better to get those taken care of before we try and tune anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted April 5 Author Share Posted April 5 By popular request, riding on her own air and starting to look like a car. I had to solder some corroded connectors (the ones in the footwells, of course) before the EAS would play ball and the right front is leaking a bit, but she did rise! As for tuning, the lambda is new, so I hope it hasn't seen any coolant and not too much oil yet. 😛 But the previous log was mainly idling or revving with little or no load, so not the best basis. If I fix the leak (not the oil leak in the picture, Ben already took care of that), we can take her for a longer and faster spin and see what that yields. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 26 minutes ago, Escape said: By popular request, riding on her own air and starting to look like a car. I had to solder some corroded connectors (the ones in the footwells, of course) before the EAS would play ball and the right front is leaking a bit, but she did rise! As for tuning, the lambda is new, so I hope it hasn't seen any coolant and not too much oil yet. 😛 But the previous log was mainly idling or revving with little or no load, so not the best basis. If I fix the leak (not the oil leak in the picture, Ben already took care of that), we can take her for a longer and faster spin and see what that yields. Looking good Winch bumper a la Ben...????? Hope to see it in the flesh one day Regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted April 5 Author Share Posted April 5 I'm still in doubt about the winchbumper. My previous one had a hidden winchcradle with the standard bumper shell over it, as per the pic in the very first post of this thread. I was very happy with that. But the one on Panzer is very nice as well, and a lot stronger. Combined with a similar rear bumper and knowing how rare a good set of bumpers is becoming, that might be the way forward. That would also make for some very nice group photos! On another note, I just did the first serious test run with my other P38. The one that ended up with water in cilinder 8 coming back from UK... A friend's D2 broke down while on holiday with the family. So we loaded his Defender onto the trailer, towed it just across the border in the Netherlands so he could continue his holiday and I came back with his D2 on the trailer. About 170 miles total, so not that long but more than I had already done since the rebuild and this time with a proper load instead of just going to and from the Shop. She behaved well, temperature never went above 90°C, plenty of power and a relaxed drive. A great way to start the weekend! Filip 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Which bits of the bumper do you need? Plastic or metal bits? I might have a couple going free. Metal bits are crusty and I can't remember what the state of the plastic is in yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted April 6 Author Share Posted April 6 On the last one, we reused the outsides of the metal frame, attached to a beefed up center with the winch mount, and put the plastic skin over that. So I definitely need the plastic, the metal bits we could rebuild. A very kind offer, but quite bulky for a forum relay. And not something I could easily stuff in a Lotus boot. 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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