reb78 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Finished doing the timing belt on the 110 (200tdi) today. Put it all back together, went for a spin. All looked good up top, looked underneath, coolant pouring out everywhere. Its coming from the rear of the timing chest where it meets the block! I guess it is getting along the water pump bolts and coming out at the back. What to do? I guess strip the whole timing case off and replace the rear gasket as well? Going to start stripping it again now, but thoughts are welcome. (need the 110 next week as the D3 is sorned and its MOT is up next Saturday and it needs the front lower arms doing and the D2 needs a few bits doing ready for its MOT the week after next!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 Don't worry. Answered my own question - its ERR1607 thats leaking, its not going along the bolt, so it looks like the timing chest needs to come off for sure. https://www.lrdirect.com/ERR1607-Gasket-Water-Inlet-2.25-2.5Pddt2T/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 That's a pain to have to remove everything again, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 Theres not much more to say than that really! My version was a little more blue! I take it there is no way to replace that little gallery gasket without removing the whole timing case?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 I can imagine the blue space when you found the leak, don't think so, the rear part of timing case will have to move forward so the water gallery gasket can be removed & new one fitted, so all the bolts have to be undone/removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 Haha, yep. I wasnt happy! Ok. thanks - will get it stripped then parts ordered for next weekend! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Wouldn’t have thought that gasket would have been disturbed if just doing the belt? Unless you took the timing case itself off? I suppose given that the water pump bolts go through the pump, timing cover, timing case and then into the block it may have shifted slightly when you removed them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 I know. there are a lot of failure points for this water pump! It's stripped now. The gallery gasket doesn't look damaged to be honest. Everything was torqued up correctly. This jobs turned into a bit of a mission. Got it back together on Tuesday only to find i had misaligned the front cover gasket that time. I didn't do it the second time and could clearly see the drip from the bottom right bolt on the water pump but behind the timing case. Maybe I was messing around too long with the water pump (since i had to do it twice)! When re-assembling this lot, what is the consensus on hylomar, grease, dry etc on the gaskets? I dont want to do it again. Some of the ali surfaces on the front cover are looking a little aged and pitted in places if that makes a difference to answers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 On my rebuild I coated the gaskets with grease, just enough to cover them with a smear. any pitted areas could be smoothed down the gaskets will take up the minimal difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 I always put a smear of RTV on the gaskets around the water gallery areas as the mating faces on mine are pretty old too. Only a smear mind, not a bead. Just to help the gasket seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 I too use grease to stick the gaskets unless it's the water pump where it gets a smear of RTV. Mo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 I only ever use grease on gaskets. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 I always use grease on paper gaskets, but I thought these red and black rubbery baskets were supposed to be used dry. I prefer grease or even a sealant as they help seal any surface imperfections, but also hold the gasket in place while you refit the casings. As long as you don’t apply large amounts, they’ll do no harm, and while sealant may make future removal more difficult than a dry gasket, grease certainly makes it a lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 I think I would feel better with a little sealant given the pitting on some of the aluminium parts. My worry with sealant on this job though is the time it takes me to assemble that top section where the water pump goes and the setting time of the sealant. So say I use sealant on the water channel gallery seal. I have to replace the timing chest, put all of the timing gears back in, replace the timing belt time it up and tension it, replace the front cover (with sealant?), then get the water pump and its gasket bolted up. I work methodically.... so read that as not that fast.... so will the original sealant on the gallery seal have gone off by then and impede sealing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 I use this stuff sparingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 Phil, is that the same/similar to Hylomar Blue? I have some of that and interestingly saw one of the TV car mechanics using it on water pump sealants the other day (cant remember who - it might have been Wheeler Dealers on in the background - I dont normally watch it but there was nothing else on) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 I think so. I haven't used hylomar blue, but this stuff is a non setting compound that is oil and coolant resistant. I. Got it off the shelf in Halfords on my trade card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 Yeah, sounds like the same sort of stuff. Maybe I will give that a go then. I did try using some of this stuff - https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Loctite-3020-Spray-Tack-Gasket-Dressing-400ml/2264359819?iid=192955129897 But it seemed to make the paper swell a little and so made it difficult to keep in the right places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 1 hour ago, reb78 said: so will the original sealant on the gallery seal have gone off by then and impede sealing? Perhaps, but if you put it on sensibly, it'll just squash down anyway. That is what you are supposed to do with RTV sealant, not put the parts together with it wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Noooooo ! None of the above. All those silicone RTV type sealers are meant to be used on their own for irregular surfaces, oil pans and the like, and also only to properly prepared and degreased surfaces, and as for blue Hylomar, the sign of the bodge, hopeless ! Wellseal is what you want. Best sealer ever, and non hardening EVER. Either as a gasket dressing, or on its own to perfectly fitting machined surfaces .Apply with a brush, let it dry for a bit, and the gasket will stay where its put, and it NEVER leaks, unless you have displaced the gasket somehow. Not on head gaskets though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 The one I use is great. Been on the engine from when I rebuilt it a couple of years ago and no leaks. I followed the instructions and smeared a small amount on the gasket. This is different to the types that harden like the RTV type for sealing oil sumps where no gasket is recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 I put a bit of rtv on the water pump gasket and it outlasted the pump. So not at all hopeless nor a bodge it would seem 😊 Mo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 Didnt your water pump only live a short life though Mo?! Right, all gaskets and seals ordered (most of them again!) so hopefully they will arrive by the weekend and I can get this all fixed on Saturday. The timing belt and tensioner has only done about 5 miles so that can go back on - is it now a new or old belt when it comes to tensioning it??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 43 minutes ago, reb78 said: The timing belt and tensioner has only done about 5 miles so that can go back on - is it now a new or old belt when it comes to tensioning it??!! I think we had all sit on the fence for this one ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 49 minutes ago, reb78 said: Didnt your water pump only live a short life though Mo?! Right, all gaskets and seals ordered (most of them again!) so hopefully they will arrive by the weekend and I can get this all fixed on Saturday. The timing belt and tensioner has only done about 5 miles so that can go back on - is it now a new or old belt when it comes to tensioning it??!! New Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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