Engine Conversion

[Reggie87]

I just imported a 1987 Defender 110 Ex Military Diesel from the UK to the US. It's unmodified and has the 4 cylinder self aspirated non turbo diesel engine. It's 24v as it was the radio/comms vehicle. I am looking to do an engine conversion to a turbo diesel so I can use it and am looking for suggested shops in Florida that may do such work. Suggestions appreciated

Edited April 8 by Reggie87

[Eightpot]

Nice 110 - most of the ex military ones are actually 12v - the FFR (fitted for radio) types had a 12v alternator as normal plus a second belt driven 24v alternator that powered large battery packs in the rear for the radio equipment. Some or all of that has probably been removed on your vehicle.

The easiest conversion is using a Defender (not Discovery) 200tdi engine, if you can find one in the US. Discovery 200tdi can be fitted but the modifications needed are in my opinion less desirable than fitting a 300tdi from a later Defender/Discovery.   

You will also need additional parts such as radiator/intercooler and the frame they sit in, various pipes/hoses, fuel filter housing, air box, exhaust etc etc. Plenty of info on here in archives/tech pages.

[smallfry]

Not many US based members on here, so I doubt if you will get any recommendations.

Probably best to use a domestic motor, if you can find something that fits the bill, or a BMW or Mercedes unit. Lots of info and conversion hardware available for them.

[Chicken Drumstick]

No idea why you’d want a turbo diesel if you are in North America. The only reason turbo diesel was popular in Europe was down to the fact we pay considerably more for fuel. The petrol (gas) V8 was better in every regard other than mpg. 
 

It’s not as if the diesel units are comparable to a Cummins 5.9 or a 6.6 Duramax. The diesels are unrefined, small displacement, noisy and down on power and performance. Don’t get me wrong. I have a Tdi Land Rover myself. For the U.K. it is sort of ok, but access to much more affordable fuel and I’d personally think you’d be utter mad to want to fit anything like a Tdi in it. 
 

As for suitable engines. Depends what you want to do with the vehicle at the end of the day and what you are planning on doing with the transmission and driveline. Land Rovers are not designed for huge Bhp. You could swap out the axles, gearbox and transfer case for non LR items, but by the time you’ve done this and swapped the engine. You’d have to ask why bother having a Land Rover if you have nothing really left of it?
 

If you want to keep it "Land Rover" swapping in a 4.0 or 4.6 Rover V8 from a p38 Range Rover or a Discovery 1 or 2 should be fairly straight forward.

[Bowie69]

You don't mention budget, but if you have deepish pockets, the Cummins R2.8 is a popular swap in the states, for Jeep and LR. 

[Chicken Drumstick]

2 hours ago, Reggie87 said:

I just imported a 1987 Defender 110 Ex Military Diesel from the UK to the US. It's unmodified and has the 4 cylinder self aspirated non turbo diesel engine. It's 24v as it was the radio/comms vehicle. I am looking to do an engine conversion to a turbo diesel so I can use it and am looking for suggested shops in Florida that may do such work. Suggestions appreciated

Not sure how standard it is. Looks shiny and tidy for ex mil. Guessing those pics are of it in the U.K. as it doesn’t look much like Fl. It does look nice though. 
 

You’ll probably want to change the tyres too. Those “Security” remoulds aren’t great on road or off road. 
 

I think most NaD diesel Military 110’s have the 1.6:1 ratio transfer box. You may want to bear this in mind as it’ll give super short on road gearing and a low top speed due to gearing. 

[FridgeFreezer]

^ what they said, a domestic engine like a low-end LS or the GM Fireball V6 that shares lineage with the Rover/Buick V8 would be a far easier bet in most ways, the Land Rover turbo diesels are unicorns out there and make very little sense, especially now they're all very old.

I've pondered for a while if the Fireball would bolt up to a Land Rover transmission designed for the Rover/Buick V8, it could make for a very neat & practical conversion with decent power - ISTR they did supercharged versions so fill your boots!

All that said the 2.5 NAD is not a bad engine in good condition, you won't get anywhere fast but they're solid old lumps if you just accept you're not winning any races and relax your driving style.

[Eightpot]

Popped one of these in at work a while back - yep a lot more intetesting than a tdi, fitted in relatively well with the corvette auto, but it's not a small or cheap project by any means.. I'd rather keep it in something sporty and plod about in the land rover, 450bhp in a 110 felt life threatening. 

[Snagger]

12 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

You don't mention budget, but if you have deepish pockets, the Cummins R2.8 is a popular swap in the states, for Jeep and LR. 

I tried a friend’s 2.8 Cummins 90 work in progress, and it pulls like a freight train.  Well worth considering, given the costs and pitfalls of sourcing a Tdi over there.

That does look a tidy 110.  It wouldn’t have left the Army like that!  The 12J engine is a steady plodder, reliable and quite capable off road in low ratio, but if you cover many road miles, I can see why you’d want something a bit fruitier.  As Drumstick mentioned, most 12J 110s in the UK Forces had 1.6:1 ratio high range, which will leave you a bit undergeared with a stronger engine.

[FridgeFreezer]

1 hour ago, Snagger said:

I tried a friend’s 2.8 Cummins 90 work in progress, and it pulls like a freight train.  Well worth considering, given the costs and pitfalls of sourcing a Tdi over there.

Only drawback with big lumpy diesels is they seem to destroy LR drivetrain components much more quickly compared to smoother petrol engines, even ones that make more power.

Plus it does come back to the question why you'd fit a diesel in the US unless you were doing a LOT of miles, these days they're not cheaper or simpler than a petrol lump either.

[garrycol]

In the early 80s, LR Australia had a decision to make with the Series 3 Stage 1 and then the new 110 of what diesel engine to with.  They could go with the NA 2.5 which was considered unacceptable for Aust use or something else, so LR Australia went with the Isuzu 3.9litre  4cylinder 4BD1 diesel and it remained until the introduction of the Defender and Discovery with the 200TDI.   The Isuzu Diesel is available in the US.

At first it used the 4 speed LT95 gearbox and transfer case and later with the 5 speed LT85 box with the LT230 transfer case - all quite successful and a genuine fit not aftermarket.

The Australian army used the 4BDI version with the LT95 in their 110 4x4 Perentie  and the 4BDIT turbo version in the 6x6 versions.  There are quite a few of these vehicles in the US.

This Isuzu version of the 110 is quite a successful vehicle and you should be able to get most bits in the US and most are available from Australia.

[Snagger]

57 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Only drawback with big lumpy diesels is they seem to destroy LR drivetrain components much more quickly compared to smoother petrol engines, even ones that make more power.

Plus it does come back to the question why you'd fit a diesel in the US unless you were doing a LOT of miles, these days they're not cheaper or simpler than a petrol lump either.

That much is true, but diesels do have much better mpg and most Americans are upset about how much fuel prices have risen, even though it is far cheaper than in Europe.  North Americans (and Aussies) do tend to drive much greater distances than most. 

[Bowie69]

Of course, being in the states, and access to cheap LSs autoboxes and numerous different transfer cases, and the vehicle being a long wheelbase, I wouldn't be putting anything LR based in it.

[Junglie]

I think that's one of the ex Singapore military Landys that seem to be quite common on the market at the moment.

I'd also concur with what many others have said - drop a V8 in it instead of messing with diesel as they're relatively easy to source in the US. Or leave it as is - the NAD will still work post nuclear apocalypse which may be worth bearing in mind... 😉

[FridgeFreezer]

1 hour ago, Snagger said:

That much is true, but diesels do have much better mpg and most Americans are upset about how much fuel prices have risen, even though it is far cheaper than in Europe.  North Americans (and Aussies) do tend to drive much greater distances than most. 

Cost of conversion buys a hell of a lot of fuel though, especially if you're comparing a very cheap & available V6 or V8 to a crate motor costing 10k or more... in fact (googles it) $18k RRP plus the cost of conversion buys a lot of gas.

And a much nicer / quieter driving experience I'd wager.

[TSD]

6 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Only drawback with big lumpy diesels is they seem to destroy LR drivetrain components much more quickly compared to smoother petrol engines,

Do you think the same problem might exist with the odd-fire V6 you suggested? Not sure if they all were but I'm sure the early ones I looed at back in the days of my v6 hybrid were.

Edited April 9 by TSD

[FridgeFreezer]

13 hours ago, TSD said:

Do you think the same problem might exist with the odd-fire V6 you suggested? Not sure if they all were but I'm sure the early ones I looed at back in the days of my v6 hybrid were.

Still not as peaky as a 4cyl: http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/torsional_excitation_from_piston_engines.htm

Although obviously a nice smooth V8 would be preferable

Not sure if diesels would also have sharper peaks due to the higher compression and nasty rattling noise?

[Snagger]

18 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Cost of conversion buys a hell of a lot of fuel though, especially if you're comparing a very cheap & available V6 or V8 to a crate motor costing 10k or more... in fact (googles it) $18k RRP plus the cost of conversion buys a lot of gas.

And a much nicer / quieter driving experience I'd wager.

I don’t know that a Cummins would be so much more than a new LS - I haven’t looked it up.  The 2.8 Cummins is pretty compact, though, so might be an easier fit.  As to noise and smoothness, these are generations ahead of the Tdi and it didn’t seem too noisy, especially considering the 90 it was in had no interior linings and the tunnel cover was still absent.  Most of the noise came from the big tyres.  I do get your point, and yes, a V8 has to be smoother on the transmission, but most damage is from heavy feet rather than the crank impulses, and an LS is at least as likely to kill the transmission as a four pot diesel.

[Chicken Drumstick]

9 hours ago, Snagger said:

I don’t know that a Cummins would be so much more than a new LS - I haven’t looked it up.  The 2.8 Cummins is pretty compact, though, so might be an easier fit.  As to noise and smoothness, these are generations ahead of the Tdi and it didn’t seem too noisy, especially considering the 90 it was in had no interior linings and the tunnel cover was still absent.  Most of the noise came from the big tyres.  I do get your point, and yes, a V8 has to be smoother on the transmission, but most damage is from heavy feet rather than the crank impulses, and an LS is at least as likely to kill the transmission as a four pot diesel.

Isn’t the Cummins something like $12-15k? And would still need loads of parts and adapting to fit in a Land Rover. 

A crate LS is I think around $5-6k. But tbh you’d just go to any junk yard and pick up a running 4.8 or 5.3 for $1000 if you are in the USA. 
 

 

[Snagger]

By the same token, you could find a used diesel….  I think I recall the Cummins being 7-8k, still a lot of money.  12-15 would be way over the top.

[Chicken Drumstick]

9 hours ago, Snagger said:

By the same token, you could find a used diesel….  I think I recall the Cummins being 7-8k, still a lot of money.  12-15 would be way over the top.

Looks to be more than I thought.

 

https://shop.cummins.com/SC/product/cummins-r28-turbo-diesel-crate-engine-5467036/01t4N0000048ikGQAQ

For the UK/EU it'd be a really nice engine bar the price. In the US I can only see it making sense if you plan on doing big miles each year and need to watch the mpg. But anyone spending this kind of money on an engine is unlikely to be fussed about mpg and general running costs I'd have thought.

Looks like an LS3 crate engine has gone up in price, but still half the cost of the 2.8 Cummins....

 

I would think a 5.3 cast iron block LQ engine from a junk yard would be a nice engine and likely the cheapest route. Only real issue is what you do about the transmission. There are a few LT230 to GM auto options, but not much choice if you want a manual.

 

Doesn't look like the op has come back though  

[TSD]

Maybe it's just because I'm old and grumpy, but to me it seems a shame to go to all the effort of importing a nice 110 and then destroy a lot of its character by stuffing in a big V8 and a slushbox. Might as well go the whole hog and reproduce that rebodied Jeep monstrosity in the 'Pass the Bucket' thread

Obviously depending on legalities, I'd still be thinking hard about a tdi, (or of course a 2.8TGV from the South American spec Ford Ranger). If lack of power really is the problem, for $10k it might be easiest and cheapest to keep all that power in another vehicle parked next to the 110 and make the choice each morning ...

[Chicken Drumstick]

14 minutes ago, TSD said:

Maybe it's just because I'm old and grumpy, but to me it seems a shame to go to all the effort of importing a nice 110 and then destroy a lot of its character by stuffing in a big V8 and a slushbox. Might as well go the whole hog and reproduce that rebodied Jeep monstrosity in the 'Pass the Bucket' thread

Obviously depending on legalities, I'd still be thinking hard about a tdi, (or of course a 2.8TGV from the South American spec Ford Ranger). If lack of power really is the problem, for $10k it might be easiest and cheapest to keep all that power in another vehicle parked next to the 110 and make the choice each morning ...

Auto box I agree, I'd personally prefer a manual. But a V8 goes with a 110 like butter goes with bread. The factory even sold them with V8's fitted  

[TSD]

I don't generally share my opinion of the Rover V8 here, as it runs the risk of being labelled as heresy on this forum.

[Chicken Drumstick]

3 minutes ago, TSD said:

I don't generally share my opinion of the Rover V8 here, as it runs the risk of being labelled as heresy on this forum.

Its a good simple unit used in 100's of different vehicles and well proven. It is no power monster, although back in the day it was pretty good compared to contemporaries. I currently have 3 of them and have owned more of them. They are a nice way to get 200hp and a smooth running awesome soundtrack. These days though you can have another 100 Horse Power+ and as good or better mpg from a more modern V8. In the USA it would be easy and cheap to pick up an LS/LQ Chevy engine for very low cost. Or even a 5.7 Hemi from a Dodge/Chrysler. But getting a 4.0/4.6 RV8 over shouldn't be all that hard being as they were sold there too. Which would make for a more factory and "Rover" setup.