Building for the future

[Guest WALFY]

No difference from me damaging the car anywhere and making a field repair to get home.

this country is turning into a blame cultured one, not the one I grew up in.

And Walfy the 110 comment was to me not you

that's your complex at work again See I told you you had one

Tony

I know the 110 comment was for you but I don't have a tow veh at all. Hence my post. I don't have a complex :D

[Corrode Finger]

Probably quite the opposite would happen as someone with deep pockets would be able to turn oup on new simex every event throw an infinate amount of money at the one winch.

The same type of system has been applied to some of the one make circuit racing series with devastating results for the budget teams.

Easy, solve lots of problems, bar the innovation one!!

turn up in any truck, car, plane you want, its irrellavant!

pay your slightly higher entrance fee.

You then get the organisers standard issue 1995 LR 90 Truck Cab, with 35" Simex, and one out of the box brand new Warn winch. Every truck is owned and maintained by the event organiser, no one gets to tinker, you all have the same truck, ooh, and too make it 'fair' you get the truck drawn by the Lotto machine.

Then you tell all the drivers to get in the truck and prove they are what counts.

Keeps all the budget boys out, cos they do not 'own' the truck.

Thats the only way to 'make it fair' and keep money out of it, but it will keep innovation out of the sport too.

Controversial but fair!??

[sheeppimp]

There really haven't been anty cogniscant reasons on here for not allowing a free for all limited by class size only.

That's a fair point, so why shouldn't it be 'anything goes'

What we want to do is fly in the face of recent UK history and actually remove regulations- just have enough that people are safe, but take responsibility for their own trucks and actions. MOT and SVA would seem to be a good starting point!

all other mods should be free- whether you want to build a monster truck or a super light floaty truck that never gets bogged down.

Don't quite see why MOT/SVA should be relevant at all - it's not across the board in any other form of motorsport. The basic safety issues should be checked at scrutineering so a little bit more regular and accurate than an annual(MOT) or first reg(SVA) check. We all know these are no proof of roadworthiness apart from the time of the test.

[Daan]

I've allways found that road cars work best on the road, and conversely offroaders work best offroad

I can only imagine that you've some how compromised the offroad ability of you hybrid to enable it to be driven safely on the road.

Your not wrong there, but we need to keep in mind that many events have got many roadmiles between stages. Hell, on the RFC we drove from singapore to Kuala Lumpur (350 Km), then from KL to the prolog (250 KM), then 1000 jungle KMs and then 250 KM back to KL.

I dont rate specials with that cant go on the road and carry only 10 litres of fuel personally, Although they are obviously more competitive on one day concealed area events.

Daan

[Les Brock]

Who cares what you drive as long as you enjoy yourself

and are a legal as you can be

[dollythelw]

Who cares what you drive as long as you enjoy yourself

and are a legal as you can be

Bang on

[will_warne]

Don't quite see why MOT/SVA should be relevant at all - it's not across the board in any other form of motorsport. The basic safety issues should be checked at scrutineering so a little bit more regular and accurate than an annual(MOT) or first reg(SVA) check. We all know these are no proof of roadworthiness apart from the time of the test.

I think the main reason is that for many events you NEED to have transit sections. This puts us on a par with rallying where cars also need to be road legal. They have all the same problems too - I can't remember which driver it was a few years ago that was stopped during the Wales WRC driving down the motorway on 3 wheels!

I think Les has hit the nail on the head - I think many of us are sailing close to the wind and we all have to be as legal as we fell we can, or need, to be.

[bathtub]

I don't think it is the way forward for the sport, but it would be an interesting exercise to see who the top 'drivers' really are.

2 problems

I dont want to drive a F**** 90 thanks

What if you cant fit in a 90

Comments like all compete in a 90 with Simex is the problem here .It should be a similar wheel base production truck with standard suspension etc with 35" tyres

[Mark90]

Doesn't have to be 90's, could all compete in zuk's on 205's? Well those who could fit in one

[bathtub]

Pete,

Close but not quite - There is a distinction between banning innovations (twin motor winches, hydro steer, etc.) and restricting things that just price people out of being competitive in a given class (tyre size, number of winches, standard bodywork or tube buggy, etc.). What's being suggested here are some (very loose) restrictions on a couple of simple points to stop the cost of being competitive spiraling and pricing the "grass roots" out of this sport.

Anyone could, if they had the money, buy some 52" agri tyres - that is not innovation, it's one-upmanship.

Innovation requires a bit of thought and some engineering on the part of the competitor - and they can build it themselves for little cash or pay someone else if they have the money and prefer to do it that way.

Some of the most amazing stuff we saw in Russia was built for less money than some people spend on an 8274, those guys had sat down, thought long and hard and used what they had to build a truck that would out-perform the chequebook "challenge spec" clones costing ten times as much. They had home built PTO winches that are faster than a twin-motor 24v offering or Petal's type-R hydro. That's innovation, and that is to be encouraged, because no matter how much some muppet throws money at Scorpion/Devon/Etc. to build them an "extreme" truck, the guy who shows up with something new is gonna be ahead of them.

Dont quite agree with just buy some 52" tyres .What about axles,suspension, gearing etc ect it takes to be able to run it & last surely thats innovation if you could make a truck last with 52s.

Then theres the cheap budgets ive yet to see a proper comp truck that if you added up the build time atv a £ per hr & parts at what it would cost Joe public they are rarly cheap !!!! Just if it happens that you are in the trade or dont work long hours at another job doent mean in real world terms that the 200hrs you spend searching scrap yards or Ebay etc didnt cost money !!! Its horses for courses.

[Corrode Finger]

2 problems

I dont want to drive a F**** 90 thanks

What if you cant fit in a 90

Comments like all compete in a 90 with Simex is the problem here .It should be a similar wheel base production truck with standard suspension etc with 35" tyres

I cant fit in a 90 truckcab, but i was trying to make an exagereated point that you can take the 'make it fair' for everyone to an extreme! You get given your car and told to get on with it!

If you prefer we could give everyone the 'Ultimate Driving Machine' X5, then you really would have to work at driving offroad!

[dirtydiesel]

Back to the thread,

Paul, don't you think you'd have been better starting this thread before you bult your new car?

Or now that it's nearly finished are you worried that it's behind the times allready and your worried it won't have the staying power of piggy?

Maybe you were hopeing for us to somehow validate your thoughts and ideas behind the new car?

Come on Paul grace me with an answer.

[dirtydiesel]

Your not wrong there, but we need to keep in mind that many events have got many roadmiles between stages. Hell, on the RFC we drove from singapore to Kuala Lumpur (350 Km), then from KL to the prolog (250 KM), then 1000 jungle KMs and then 250 KM back to KL.

I dont rate specials with that cant go on the road and carry only 10 litres of fuel personally, Although they are obviously more competitive on one day concealed area events.

Daan

Only 1800kms, childs play.

For the most part though most uk events are single venue,

And there enough of these quite hard single day single venue events available to fill almost every weekend in the calender more than justifying the existance of one trick ponys that only carry 10litres of fuel.

[Exmoor Beast]

Fascinating stuff folks, I just wish I had something sensible to add.

Will

[Petergg]

I think that if I built a car that I could drive through every section put in front of it I would soon get bored with it, and look for something more challenging, build in reliability and you are half way there.

The bigger and better the vehicle the more challenging and harder it is to set out and find land to use.

Peter

[FridgeFreezer]

Dont quite agree with just buy some 52" tyres .What about axles,suspension, gearing etc ect it takes to be able to run it & last surely thats innovation if you could make a truck last with 52s.

Then theres the cheap budgets ive yet to see a proper comp truck that if you added up the build time atv a £ per hr & parts at what it would cost Joe public they are rarly cheap !!!! Just if it happens that you are in the trade or dont work long hours at another job doent mean in real world terms that the 200hrs you spend searching scrap yards or Ebay etc didnt cost money !!! Its horses for courses.

You can make a truck to stand it with or without budget - the Russian guys make their own portal axles because they can't afford Volvos or Mogs and run round on 40" agri tyres probably borrowed from the family tractor.

The point is, tyre size is a sensible thing to limit as you can't whittle a set of 52" boggers out of thin air - whoever you are you're gonna have to flex the chequebook to get hold of them. That makes it a race of wallets, nothing more. It also has backup reasons like limiting site damage a little.

Defining classes by basics like tyre size, number of winches, full body, modified, or custom tubular are all reasonable ways to keep the playing field reasonably level.

You could throw money at a stock 90 to compete in the bottom class, but you're going to have a similar amount on your plate to the guy who turns up with his shoestring-budget stock 90.

[honitonhobbit]

Why don't you all just accept that it's up to the individual and what he/she/it/turbocharger wants. If there is a competition/event that can encompass that then great, if not hard luck.

To be honest what has always attracted me to motorised competiton is the skill of the driver/navigator and the reliability of the machine. Winning is great but finishing is damn good. Finishing with a good position against vast budgets is bl**dy good to. Winning in a relatively boggo vehicle is pleasantly messy.

So some people like a trailer, some need a trailer, some don't give a rats bottom for a trailer. Common sense is the name of the game. Is there a need for a post event scrutineer - check vehicles should be allowed on the road, should trailers be allowed on the road (DD and his vastly overloaded TD4 Freeloader concept for example). How far do you take it? Why worry overly much anyway? If something goes wrong it will only backlash on the sport which is barley holding on by it's fingernails...

Paul you are a stirring git by the way. As an aside have you noticed just how few posts there are on Devon on this same thread than compared to here? Less clique more thought on LR4x4?

[dirtydiesel]

The point is, tyre size is a sensible thing to limit as you can't whittle a set of 52" boggers out of thin air - whoever you are you're gonna have to flex the chequebook to get hold of them. That makes it a race of wallets, nothing more. It also has backup reasons like limiting site damage a little.

On the contrary i could almost definately get a set of 52"+ tractor tyres (part worn) for less than you could buy a set of 205x16 remoulds.

But it would take a monumental amount of work to get any comp car reliable on them, so if someone had the balls to have a go why restrict them?

I'd love to compete agaist a car on 52"s.

[Exmoor Beast]

To be honest what has always attracted me to motorised competiton is the skill of the driver/navigator and the reliability of the machine. Winning is great but finishing is damn good. Finishing with a good position against vast budgets is bl**dy good to. Winning in a relatively boggo vehicle is pleasantly messy.

To finish first you have to finish indeed. Something that seems to allude me at times I have always taken a great deal of pleasure in using the 110 for things it plainly wasn't intended for. I often daydream of 3 link suspension etc but I know if the 110 was the equal of my competitors I wouldn't enjoy the event as much. As Jez said back up above somewhere, "its more heroic".

Pauls Piggy, going back to the start of the thread, has always been a favourite of mine because its so simple, looks like a Land-Rover and hasn't got an all singing megabucks V8. Give Piggy a rebuild Paul but keep her looking like a Land-Rover. If that means you have to compromise on vehicle ability just enjoy the disadvantage when you are winning

Will

[Paul Wightman]

Paul you are a stirring git by the way. As an aside have you noticed just how few posts there are on Devon on this same thread than compared to here? Less clique more thought on LR4x4?

Devon has many who are above trivial issues such as vehicle legality and others who don’t have a clue as to what’s going on. On the other hand here we do tend to waffle and go round in circles.

Will, thanks for the compliment! I did deliberate for a long time whether to continue with Piggy or start again. Piggy is pre SVA but I do have a letter from VRO stating it is a 1971 Range Rover hybrid. You can have a tax exempt coil sprung series II !

Piggy needs bringing up to date, bigger engine, 4 sp auto gearbox, 1.4 transfer box, 100” wheelbase, less overhang front and back, re-wiring, storage in the cab behind the seats, less weight and no protrusions below the chassis.

Easier to start again!

Not that I am in any way building a new truck!

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Not that I am in any way building a new truck!

Words like Pinocchio come to mind ..................

Ian

[dirtydiesel]

Words like Pinocchio come to mind ..................

Ian

We're not quite as green and cabbage like as we look you know Paul

[simon_s]

Paul you are a stirring git by the way. As an aside have you noticed just how few posts there are on Devon on this same thread than compared to here? Less clique more thought on LR4x4?

Nail on head.

[filthy boy]

I start cutting my Spidertrax axles down to width this weekend, then I will fit the 35 spline ARB fitted high pinion 9" centres and 1.5" diameter shafts (4340 or 300M).....

Am I banned yet?

[Paul Wightman]

I start cutting my Spidertrax axles down to width this weekend, then I will fit the 35 spline ARB fitted high pinion 9" centres and 1.5" diameter shafts (4340 or 300M).....

Am I banned yet?

Hi stranger! No, not banned yet but are you sure about your choice of axles?