The definitive Bobtail SVA thread

[Steve Hiatt]

Lara, I agree but have no idea what law Vosa are interpreting.

Another observation, if you shorten a lorry chassis, it needs an inspection of that work only and you don't get a Q plate.

[bishbosh]

This topic should be re-named to read "dig your self the biggest deepest hole possible and throw your self needlessly in"

Asking some paper pushing idiot who knows nothing to tell you weather or not your car fits the rules is akin to suicide!

Why not read the paperwork properly and decide for your self, ??????

Some times people go out asking for trouble!!!

Lara.

A bit wide of the mark that I think. If we were all allowed to apply our own interpretation of the law we would be inone hell of a mess. The "paper pushing idiot" was a technical advisor who certainly sounded like he knew his onions.

Also, it is the duty of the vehicle's registered keeper to notify the DVLA of any changes. If you kill someone in an accident you can be sure they will go after you big time if you haven't.

If you want to bury your head in the sand good luck to you - I have decided to pull mine out (of the sand ) and take the plunge !

[nas90]

The modification of vehicles is going to become more and more difficult as time wears on. Back in the late Eighties and early Nineties we had at least 6 kit car companies on our books as customers. The laser cutting process lent itself admirably to a car designer having to constantly change components to suit engines, transmissions and trim parts that would change according to availability. The quantities ordered were also very small compared to setting-up tooling to fabricate suspension and engine mounts, it was good business and kit car customers represented a good proportion of our turnover. Now, however, we very rarely make kit car parts, there are very few companies remaining that can make a living with all the red tape needed to produce such vehicles / kits. We will soon be so controlled by Brussels and their beurocrats that only OEM specified parts will be allowed on vehicles. Forget your oversize muds and put-up with standard road tyres! As for a Bobtail, only if designed by Land Rover, I think not! Keeping my nas has an advantage of a vehicle not so strangled as new vehicles; what has been fitted (hopefully) cannot retrospectively be removed. However, getting into city centres with old bangers will be impossible and maintaining older vehicles becomes more costly and impracticable. It's a bu**er.

[pugwash]

This statement is only partly correct.

Yes the commercial test is different and less stringent than the passenger vehicle test. BUT, and this is a very big BUT, the issue here is differentiating between an "Amateur Built Vehicle" and a "Radically Modified Vehicle".

To qualify as the former you have to have documentary and photographic proof of building a "new" vehicle from parts. If you trayback your existing truck it runs the risk of being classified as a radically altered vehicle in the same way that a bobtail does as the majority of the vehicle is as Land Rover built it.

As I said before, if in doubt call the number in my first post.

nice clarification Bish thanks- i'm presuming that a Rangerover/Unimog/Corvette/random hybrid is going to be amateur built as i should be ablet o push that through on commercial!

have you come across the changes that are happening in April 2009 which sounds decidely scary!

[bishbosh]

All I know about the 2009 regs is that you will have to have ABS fitted that is designed for that vehicle, so be prepared for a mega spend on a custom design! Don't know about any other changes.

As far as your truck goes Jim you will need to have lots of photographic evidence of each stage of the build from a bare chassis up to go for "amateur built". If in doubt, don't listen to my ramblings, call the number in post 1!.

[Les Brock]

Ramble...Bish.....You.....

No... Shirley Not ! (not misspelt)

[Mark90]

hybrid is going to be amateur built

Very

But who knows what the SVA regs will be like in 2025

[Tractorboy16]

But who knows what the SVA regs will be like in 2025

with the way vehicles are built these days i think they shall pretty much kill the bespoke vehicle designers off or they shall have to be electricitions who can be handy with a welder and some mechanical knowledge!!!

About the 2008 regs,

shall the ABS be included on all vehicles going for a test, my hybrid which is being build, hopefull be done by then if im bk from aus but would that have to have abs fitted? im thinking of going for a amature build as have loads of pics but on a commercial as its a 88 inch efender pick-up.

cheers

james

[4.6v8lwt]

Here is a question for you all, having a ex military land rover which has always been on a Q can i just get on and modify it as its already on a Q plate. Then if necessasary put it in for the appropriate test and what are they going to do? The other thing is once your modified motor is changed to a Q what happens if you keep modifying it? Have a couple of ideas for a hybrid just wondering if it would be any less stressful starting with a Q plate motor as a base.

[landmannnn]

Here is a question for you all, having a ex military land rover which has always been on a Q can i just get on and modify it as its already on a Q plate. Then if necessasary put it in for the appropriate test and what are they going to do? The other thing is once your modified motor is changed to a Q what happens if you keep modifying it? Have a couple of ideas for a hybrid just wondering if it would be any less stressful starting with a Q plate motor as a base.

Q plate used to be a dodgy, nobody would want to buy one. Nowaday it looks like Q plate = licence to modify.

[nickm]

mmm i've been looking for a q plate

if i understood i correctly a q plate has already been looked at

and wouldnt need to be seen again

[simonr]

Do you know if the requirement for ABS requires it to be a fangled electronic ABS or if it can be the simple type that used to be fitted to bikes that is essentially a pressure accumulator in the brake lines which smoothes out rapid pressure fluctuations to make the braking more progressive?

I wondered re the 2025 SVA if one solution would be to buy a small commercial - bedford rascall size (assuming such a thing exists then) which carries the components of a 4x4 which you deploy with hydraulics to raise the bedford wheels off the ground. On the road, it is a bedford with a slightly unusual load. Off the road it is also slightly unusual by todays standards - but might be a useful way round the regs?

No matter what the goverment do to make this kind of thing difficult, there will always be a way round for the devious.

Si

[Corrode Finger]

Q plate does suggest that, it is already registered as a modded vehicle, all i would say is see what the V5 says.

Mine, even though it was just VIC and changed V5 byDVLA, just states Land Rover Pickup..... no wheelbase reference or model, so potentially it could be modified further as it would still be a Land Rover.

[Mark90]

Do you know if the requirement for ABS requires it to be a fangled electronic ABS or if it can be the simple type that used to be fitted to bikes that is essentially a pressure accumulator in the brake lines which smoothes out rapid pressure fluctuations to make the braking more progressive?

I think the ABS will need to be 'approved' for the vehicle in question. Whether RRC ABS is 'approved' for a RRC based hybrid will be an interesting question. There will be a gap in the market for an ABS kit approved for use on amateur built vehicles, X-ABS??

I wondered re the 2025 SVA if one solution would be to buy a small commercial - bedford rascall size (assuming such a thing exists then) which carries the components of a 4x4 which you deploy with hydraulics to raise the bedford wheels off the ground. On the road, it is a bedford with a slightly unusual load. Off the road it is also slightly unusual by todays standards - but might be a useful way round the regs?

No matter what the goverment do to make this kind of thing difficult, there will always be a way round for the devious.

Interesting solution to the problem. However I think in the future there will be more of a move towards non road registered/legal vehicles. Rather like comp safafri and open/modified trials. I think the winch challenge scene is unusual in that the majority of events require a road ^legal registered vehicle, Neil's AWDC series being the (main) exception to that rule.

As for Q plates, my mates racer is listed on the V5 as 4x4 light utility made from parts, now if that isn't a license to build what you want I don't know what is

[bishbosh]

When a Q plate is issued after an SVA what you don't see is the report the tester writes describing the vehicle.

So if in the future you have an accident this report will be dragged out and compared against the vehicle before them.

Just because it is on a Q plate doesn't mean your duty to inform the DVLA of modifications to the vehicle suddenly goes away.

[Mark90]

Absolutely. But if the Q-plate pre dates the SVA test then who's to say what mods where present when the Q-plate was issued (or even what vehicle is was issued to )

The more restrictive the powers that be get (ssems to be mainly EU regulations that are screwing us over re motoring issues these days) the more people will try and circumvent officialdom. Just like the latest changes to VED bands, pre 2001 log books will become almost as sought after as pre 1973 ones, the amounts to be saved will be much greater than they are currently giving even great incentive to ring motors. It will happen.

[Steve Hiatt]

So if in the future you have an accident this report will be dragged out and compared against the vehicle before them.

Could you enlarge on this? Dragged out by who?

[sean f]

Could you enlarge on this? Dragged out by who?

Depending on the accident / incident, the police may well want to check things out especially if they think a modification may have contriputed to the accident in any way. Also the insurance companies will make the same checks and may reduce payments or refuse to pay out at all if they find any "unautherised" modifications, even if you have declaired them to the insurance company if they haven't been checked and declaired legal if neccesary it gives them an excuse to not pay. It is ultimately the drivers responsibility to ensure there vehicle is fully legal, if it requires an SVA (exactly what does and doesn't is open to some debate) and doesn't have one you could well end up deep in the brown stuff.

There have been cases of insurance companies refusing to pay on theft case because vehicles had alloys fitted which in there view increased the theft risk so big modification just gives them more ammo.

The same thing can apply to advisory notes given by MOT testers, these are now comuterised so can be easily accessed. If you get an advisor for brakes then have a accident and you haven't carried out the work in what thy consider a reasonable time the charges could get ramped up because in there view you are knowingly driving a vehicle which needs work. Excatly what a "reasonable time" is depend on what was picked up and how important is is seen to be, obviously it isn't required immediately other wise you wouldn't have got the MOT pass.

[bishbosh]

Depending on the accident / incident, the police may well want to check things out especially if they think a modification may have contriputed to the accident in any way. Also the insurance companies will make the same checks and may reduce payments or refuse to pay out at all if they find any "unautherised" modifications, even if you have declaired them to the insurance company if they haven't been checked and declaired legal if neccesary it gives them an excuse to not pay. It is ultimately the drivers responsibility to ensure there vehicle is fully legal, if it requires an SVA (exactly what does and doesn't is open to some debate) and doesn't have one you could well end up deep in the brown stuff.

There have been cases of insurance companies refusing to pay on theft case because vehicles had alloys fitted which in there view increased the theft risk so big modification just gives them more ammo.

The same thing can apply to advisory notes given by MOT testers, these are now comuterised so can be easily accessed. If you get an advisor for brakes then have a accident and you haven't carried out the work in what thy consider a reasonable time the charges could get ramped up because in there view you are knowingly driving a vehicle which needs work. Excatly what a "reasonable time" is depend on what was picked up and how important is is seen to be, obviously it isn't required immediately other wise you wouldn't have got the MOT pass.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Wot he said.

[Steve Hiatt]

Is this your assumption or do you have direct experience of Loss Adjusters having access SVA reports? I can find nothing on Google.

I'm waiting to hear back from a couple of friends who have had post 2004 SVA inspections as to whether photgraphs were taken or individual components listed.

I know that my pre SVA Q plate car was not photographed, it was inspected to prove the identity not safety, and therefore would be of no benefit to the Police or an insurance company.

Please be assured that I am not trying to be antagonistic.

[landrover598]

I'm waiting to hear back from a couple of friends who have had post 2004 SVA inspections as to whether photgraphs were taken or individual components listed.

Nothing was recorded or photographed in my SVA back in 2005, no details of what mods were done

[bishbosh]

Well, as expected, a letter from the DVLA arrived today (2 days inside their 4 week timeframe!)

"I am sorry to tell you that, due to a discrepancy in our records, your vehicle will have to be inspected before a Registration Certificate can be issued"

This is pretty much what I expected. Hopefully I will get an inspection date shortly........ watch this space!

[bishbosh]

Well I have forced the issue somewhat as my insurance is due for renewal on the 18th.

Spoke with the local office - a feat in itself as you have to fax them to ask them to call you! Fair play to them though, got the call in a couple of hours from sending the fax.

Long story short - inspection on the 16th at 9 am.

Fingers crossed!

[JST]

8 days time - no probs hope it goes well.

[Mo Murphy]

Good luck old man, bag a hun for me, what

MO