should i stay auto

[yella 90]

im in abit of a pickle and cannot make my mind up

i very recently converted my td5 comp truck to auto ( past 3 weeks)

with compushift ect ect

however at the tuff trophy the auto box packed up before i even did one punch

( failure is still unknown as i havent stripped the box yet, it just lost all forward drive without any warning but retained reverse)

i re-fitted the man box this weekend as i needed the land rover for sunday.

as ive had a very bad 1st experiance with my first auto i am now very reluctant to re-fit the replacement box and to stay manual.

so what would you do, re-fit the auto

or stay manual and drop the diff ratio's to help the td5 out at low rpm ( winching )

dan

[smo]

Keep the auto, you went through the effort of converting it so dont throw it all away now....however, if you do then i might be interested in some of your bits (cooler etc.)

[yella 90]

Keep the auto, you went through the effort of converting it so dont throw it all away now....however, if you do then i might be interested in some of your bits (cooler etc.)

you will have dibs on cooler if i dont stay auto

its a kin huge one that is the full width of 90 grill which kept the oil at a nice 150 on road and 160 off the beaten track

dan

[yella 90]

couldanyone also shed any light onto whats naffed up on it aswel ?

no drive in 1st 2nd 3rd or drive

ive only got reverse

dropped the oil out and it was a browny red colour......it was fresh dextron3 before the event

dan

[white90]

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/faq.html#a37

[Aragorn]

http://www.ashcrofttransmissions.co.uk/faq.html#a37

[carl hurst]

Dan,

Stay auto, When you have it sused you will love it,

Carl.

[will_warne]

Was the gearbox 2nd hand? If so, go to Mr Ashcroft, get a new gearbox (with uprated clutch packs), fit and forget. Also check the cooler as discoloured fluid is not good. If the gearbox was new then have a word with the suppler. I loved the auto (HP22/24 hybrid) I had behind the tgv and I gave it some abuse but it's still going strong!

[ciderman]

Stick with auto mate , Its something I have recently done and wished that I had done it years ago . Speak with Dave he will remidy it for you .

Will , You sure its still going strong

[FridgeFreezer]

[will_warne]

Stick with auto mate , Its something I have recently done and wished that I had done it years ago . Speak with Dave he will remidy it for you .

Will , You sure its still going strong

Last I heard it needed a seal but otherwise it was fine

[Aragorn]

Without actually starting a fight, what are the benefits of an auto? Ie why do people actually choose to fit one...

I've always liked manuals, however i was in a new BMW 330i auto at the weekend, which i would imagine is pretty advanced when it comes to autoboxes, i was quite open minded, but when in full auto mode i just didnt like it.

For instance, you'd add a bit of throttle to overtake someone at motorway speeds, and it would drop a cog or two and wind the RPM's right up, when all you wanted was a bit of accelleration in 5th.

On top of this, when you did want to give it a spanking, you'd nail the throttle, and there would be a very noticable delay of a second or so as it dropped down into some needlessly low gear, where it would only stay for a second before it hit the red line then upchange.

With a manual, you'd know that changing into second would put you at 6krpm and you'd select third instead, but the autobox didnt seem to do this, which meant it was wasting more time changing into a gear that was effectively useless.

Tiptronic mode did seem to help a bit, as you could for example preselect third before pulling out to overtake, rather than having the autobox being silly and changing down into second, but then that just defeats the point of a auto if your having to manually select the gears surely?

It just seemed to make what should have been a nice smooth car feel a bit ragged, and i cant imagine the ZF HP22/24 thats in a 80/90's range rover being as nice, as its a lot older....

[Bowie69]

TBH, that sounds like you just didn't like the auto box on that car, every one has different characteristics, and as far as kicking down too much, I find the opposite on my Rangie, sometimes I want it to kick down a bit more and it just wont.

99% of the time though it just sits in 'D' and I love it, but going down a motorway slip road and holding it in first for a bit really gets it going

My Dad's Honda VTEC would kick down too much for my liking, but his 2.7 Santa Fe is very nice.

It's very much a personal preference TBH.

[will_warne]

Off road driving is very different to on road driving. Saying I don't like auto road cars therefore I won't like auto off roaders is comparing apples and pears. Personally I hate autos on road unless I'm wafting round being lazy (not like me) but I would always choose one off road. The reasons are the control, smoothness, the torque converter (multiplication plus the fact you can build the power up on it), only 2 pedals (so can left foot brake). In fact, the only thing you loose is the ability to set off in a gear other than first but this can be solved with a manual valve body or an electronic autobox running compushift. Engine braking isn't an issue as long as you've got deep gearing. In fact I found it better with an auto and a crawler box as the slip in the torque converter helps you not to loose traction. Some say there can be issues with reliability but if you manage the heat properly, give regular oil changes and fit a belly guard to protect the sump then you should be fine.

[Aragorn]

Will: you say it gives you control, but surely the box is deciding when to change gear itself rather when you tell it, which could easily mean it shifts at an inopportune moment... If your in the middle of a particularly tricky section and just want a nice steady delivery of power, with a manual you get exactly that, with an auto it might feel like changing up or down etc? Sounds like less control to me.

You say smoothness, but then the other side of that is a lack of throttle response? With a manual its as smooth as you make it with your controls, yet you still retain as much response as the engine can provide

Left foot braking is perfectly possible in a manual car, race/rally drivers do it all the time...

I still need more convincing before i can see it as a benefit tbh. They've always seemed to me to be the lazy option for someone who doesnt really care about driving and just wants to waft along with as little effort as possible. If your driving an offroad course (or a race track or rally stage or any other form of motorsport) then one would assume your enthusiastic about driving, and therefore you'd want to have complete control over the car, which is something an autobox doesnt provide?

[lansalot]

FWIW, the Range Rover box I have has the 1-2-3-D pattern in it - I presume that means I can choose to set off in 2nd should I require it, and likewise, I can slip it straight into 2nd and it will stay there, neither changing up nor down.. I don't think going Auto means giving up quite as much control as you'd think. Certainly, my Rover 827 worked that way.

As for Bowie - have you tried adjusting the kickdown mechanism, maybe it's not set quite right ?

ps. @ Fridge -

[FridgeFreezer]

FWIW, the Range Rover box I have has the 1-2-3-D pattern in it - I presume that means I can choose to set off in 2nd should I require it, and likewise, I can slip it straight into 2nd and it will stay there, neither changing up nor down..

A common mistake - the 1-2-3-D is the upper limit, not an absolute setting. If you select "2" it will set off in 1st, change into 2nd, and go no higher. Would you believe I actually read the manual

As I see it, the pros & cons stack up like this:

Auto

+ Easy to drive

+ Kinder to drivetrain

+ Good at going up hills if you would need to change gear halfway

+ No clutch to go wrong

- Not so good at coming down hills

- ATF is its lifeblood, it must be cooled and it must have enough of it, and it must be clean.

- If you lose the oil, you lose drive. That's it.

- No autobox can see what's coming up.

Manual

+ Total control, the wheels do exactly what you tell them to with no slush in between.

+ You can see what's coming and be in the right gear for it.

+ They don't care about oil - right oil, wrong oil, dirty oil, boiling oil, no oil, you will still have drive.

+ Even if you only have one cog left in the box, you can drive.

+ If you have engine trouble, you can nurse it on clutch & gears

+ Better engine braking

- You have an extra pedal and lever to worry about

- You can break drivetrain more easily if you drive like an arse

- Shifting on a climb is not so great

- You have a clutch to go wrong & burn out

I probably missed a couple, before people shout me down. Frankly I think for most it's the toss of a coin and personal preference. I went manual 'cos I'm a control freak and like the absolute survivability of a manual.

[Daan]

I am with john on the survivability thing. One more important point I would like to add to this: Bumpstarting. If your starter is toast, your stranded with an auto. With manual, you ask a friendly person to push/towstart it and of you go.

Another one is that you loose a lot of power with auto and that is not something most of us have enough of.

Daan

[Bowie69]

As for Bowie - have you tried adjusting the kickdown mechanism, maybe it's not set quite right ?

It is on my list of things to do, but TBH, I don't think it is wrong per se, just maybe not quite what I would prefer! It is actually slightly better since I went to 33" tyres from 31.7", as the perceived load on the box is greater meaning it will hold the gear longer, I do worry about fuel consumption going silly however.... Can't remember what it was like on the originals..... was so long ago now

Hope not too OT...

[lansalot]

Hmm.. am re-considering fitting the auto now then. At the moment it's RV8/LT85 - was going to RV8/Rangey Classis Auto (don't know number) - I had thought the lengths of auto/manual in this case were the same.

Might just stick with the manual for simplicity.... hill-descents had worried me a little. Loss of "drive" could result in a saucy free-wheeling incident. I'm aware that sometimes when plummeting it's a little hard to nail the gas, which in an auto you'd have to do to get the box/engine to hookup again ? You know it's the right thing to do, just that little voice in your head goes "wtf you doing?!?!?!?".

If anyone can advise whether the engine mounts (am sticking with LT230 by the way) will need moving for the new autobox as opposed to manual, then I might just keep the LT85 where it is, only swap the engines and save on a bit of fabrication...

[will_warne]

Daan has good points - I'd concede those although more modern autos are better about sapping power.

A couple of things that FF mentioned. Auto's do have clutches and they can burn out resulting in no drive. However, if the box is good, kept cool and is serviced regularly it shouldn't cause issues. I would also disagree about hill descents - get the gearing right and I believe they are better at coming down hills as you can crawl but are less likely to loose traction due to the 'loose' nature of the torque converter. True, autos can't see the terrain ahead but you can and you should be able to tell when a gearbox is going to kick down. This is all solved by a manual valve body. I'm also not totally sold by the survivability thing with a manual as the bearings will seize pretty fast if there's no oil in there! Yes, most auto sumps are more exposed but you can get round that.

Aaragon, honestly, go and try an auto off road. You will be surprised. Lots of people who've not tried them assume the same things you're assuming

[ciderman]

Lots of people who've not tried them assume the same things you're assuming

I was one of those people , I hate driving auto cars /HGV`s on the road , But I wouldnt change the auto option in my 90

[Boothy]

Dan, lets be honest here you bought (in good faith) an old duffer power washed auto that had done a million miles, and then went on to Challenge it and it broke, suprised, no not really, get it PROPERLY reconned and join the big boys, its 100% better all round in a Challenge motor is an auto.

I will make a statement, IF I had a choice of having to have a diesel or a manual fitted to my motor, it would have to be the diesel before a manual again,

bet that suprised you didn't it pal.

[ashtrans]

Hi,

lots of issues here, one being control over the autobox shifting,

if you have the compushift you can drive in one of 2 modes, 'auto' and 'switchshift'

in auto mode you can map your shift points and converter lock up speed to suit your driving style so it behaves as you want it,

some people have mentioned you have less control with an auto as you have no control over the box shifting, this is what the switchshift or tiptronic mode is for.

you have 3 wires on the compushift loom, one common, one upshift, one downshift, just wire these 3 to a momentary switch or micro switches on a lever like a touring car and you have a manual sequential box.

in use you can drive it as an auto but when you want manual control hit the manual shifter and the display (showing what gear you are in) will change from say '3' to 'S3' indicating you are not in switchshift mode, you can now shift up and down sequentially with the display showing 'S1', 'S2', 'S3', 'S4' etc, when you want to get back to auto mode you can do this on the fly by just shifting the autobox shifter from 'D' to '3' then back to 'D',

note when shifting tiptronically you have no engine braking on the 2-1 shift but we can fix this in the valve body with a small mod FOC on boxes we supply if requested.

[Lara]

Without adding to what everyone has said well enough already, I have one statement.

"Without any doubt, of all the extensive modifications I have done on my Landy, The one mod that stands out above the rest head and shoulders as the "best thing I ever did" is fitting the Auto box" PERIOD! nothing else comes close to the advantages of using this when off road!!

Lara