gsr341 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 hi , this isnt acctally landrover related , alo easly could be . with out going in to too much detail a vehicle of mine was damaged in a hotel/pub car park friday evening , upon discovering vehicle police informed and i ''made'' the pub manager cheak to see if cctv covered where i was parked (my vehicle can clearly be seen on cctv) i dont hold much hope of the police taking this any where , so plan to take this further using the civil route to recover my costs which are likely to run in to a few thousand pounds , there are tow things i need advise on , 1) how do i stand legally of recovering the cctv evidence of the crime from the pub ? do theyhave to provide it to me ? 2) the car park does not disply a ''park at your own risk '' sighn , what sort of legal come back do i have against the pub owner ? cheers for any help offered , just really dont see why i should pay out of my own pocket or claim off insurance for some one elses stupidity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 What has the pub manager said about it? If he was a half decent person surely he'd just have checked the tape and given you the details of the vehicle if they were visible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsr341 Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 apparantly my vehicle can be seen on camara , the offenders where not in a vehicle , well , the damage was not caused by a vehicle any way , damaged the roof of my car !!! all i want is the vidio evedence as im convinsed they will be visable and if i can get a vidio cap of it can make posters local and some one will rat on the scum , them i can set about legal claims etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Best speaking to a solicitor for proper advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 You'll probably find the Data Protection Act protects the scumbags. That's the excuse the police used when a friend of mine had a wall damaged by a motorist, the police got him but wouldn't let my friend know who the driver was so he was unable to claim on the driver's insurance. I think the landlord will have a duty of care to his customers and you may be covered by his insurance. Ask at the Citizens Advice Bureau, their advice is free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divster Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 apparantly my vehicle can be seen on camara , the offenders where not in a vehicle , well , the damage was not caused by a vehicle any way , damaged the roof of my car !!! all i want is the vidio evedence as im convinsed they will be visable and if i can get a vidio cap of it can make posters local and some one will rat on the scum , them i can set about legal claims etc If the damage was not caused by another vehicle it is an offence of criminal damage to motor vehicle, not any kind of rtc related offence. As such if the incident has been reported to police it should have been recorded as a crime the number of which should be provided to you. There should then be an investigation. The extent of when or even if it gets investigated will largely depend on your local force. The hotel does not have a duty to provide you with footage, indeed duties under the DPA may prevent them from providing you with a copy. Will they let you view it on site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divster Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 You'll probably find the Data Protection Act protects the scumbags. That's the excuse the police used when a friend of mine had a wall damaged by a motorist, the police got him but wouldn't let my friend know who the driver was so he was unable to claim on the driver's insurance. I'm very surprised that the force will not disclose the details because a reportable RTC has obviously occurred. If polie have been involved and they have the details required, they have a duty to pass vehicle reg, name and address of driver and name and address of owner of vehicle to any third party Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bobber Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Following an non injury RTC, there is a legal requirement for the drivers to exchange details. As the driver did not make an attempt to report this (common sense thing would to have been to leave details with the Hotel or inform Police), he is committing an offence, and this now becomes a fail-to-stop RTC and should be invesitgated. Part of that is that Police should have siezed the CCTV, but as someone said, it depends on how big / busy your Force is. Unfortunately, there are only a (very) limited amount of officers and things like this often slide down the list of things to do. Officers would like to have the time to chase up jobs like this, but time contraints often work against this ideal. Without going OT into Polotics, perhaps we'll have a different Government next time round who spend money on the Police force rather than personal expenses!! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divster Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Following an non injury RTC, there is a legal requirement for the drivers to exchange details. As the driver did not make an attempt to report this (common sense thing would to have been to leave details with the Hotel or inform Police), he is committing an offence, and this now becomes a fail-to-stop RTC and should be invesitgated. Part of that is that Police should have siezed the CCTV, but as someone said, it depends on how big / busy your Force is. Unfortunately, there are only a (very) limited amount of officers and things like this often slide down the list of things to do. Officers would like to have the time to chase up jobs like this, but time contraints often work against this ideal. Without going OT into Polotics, perhaps we'll have a different Government next time round who spend money on the Police force rather than personal expenses!! Dave There's been no collision. It's therefore not any kind of RTC related offence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsr341 Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 as mentioned its not a TRC , its an act of vandilism . police are involved , i do have a crime number , and i understand the police are boggeddown with more important crimes , hence my wishes to recover any evidence of my own . spoke to a solicitor around an hour ago (my union subs finnaly came in usefull for some thing) and he recons that i have a case to see the footage , although a request may have to be made in writing , if the pub/hotel does not disply the correct sighnage regarding disclamer you have 6 years to claim under the occupancy liability act 1957 next step speak to manager again armed with some legal facts and act numbers and see if they will volantry release fottage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Does your vehicle / home insurance include legal cover? As has been said, the data protection act gives people certain rights but also prevents your from doing certain things. A rough guide though: - The pub should have had CCTV signage up, otherwise I believe they're in the wrong. - You can demand a copy (at reasonable cost, EG police/councils usually charge £10 last I heard) of any CCTV footage in which you are featured, so if you were filmed arriving & departing you can reasonably demand a copy of that. - You probably can't demand to see the footage of the suspects, this will depend on the details and how helpful the landlord is. He may be the helpful sort of chap who would do you a copy of the tape to fulfil your rights (above) but not manage to push the buttons fast enough to remove the footage of the suspects in between times The above also applies to any other cameras in the area, including public CCTV which may have caught a shot of the suspects on their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve King Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 2) the car park does not disply a ''park at your own risk '' sighn , what sort of legal come back do i have against the pub owner ? Not a lot I'm afraid. there is no requirement for such signs to be displayed and in any case disclaimers do not alter the legal position. Just because the vandalism occurred in a pub car park does not make it their legal liability. You would only have any kind of claim against the pub if damage occurred because the pub's negligence. To put it into context; if a mate parked his car on your drive and it was vandalised by persons unknown you would not feel obliged to pay out for repairs, on the other hand if your 3 year old had just scraped all down the side whilst riding his trike it would be a different matter..... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troddenmasses Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 What I would do is go back to the pub as soon as possible (some places use the same tape over and over again, so only record for 24 hours - but then they may have a proper digital system) with a letter addressed to the 'Information Controller' at the pub. Give the registration and description of your vehicle, and explain that under the data protection act, you require a copy of all of their footage that includes you or your property. You may have to pay a 'reasonable fee' - as said above, usually about £10. Many people these days use the DPA as a way of being lazy - "Sorry mate, can't do that - against Data Protection". It's rubbish - the DPA actually gives you more protection than most people realise. When the act first came out, comedian Mark Thomas made a theatre in the street in front of a council camera, and then demanded 'his data' back, as a humerous way of making a film (and a point). If he just gives says that he will give you the tape - no problems. If he starts to make a fuss, you could hint that unless he helps you, you will be looking to prosecute under the DPA, and looking to recover the repair costs from him. You can't, but does he know that? The fact that he isn't displaying a 'park at your own risk' sign unfortunately changes nothing - unless he is somehow in the wrong. Regarding the civil route, you really need to know who the culprit was. You then just fill out the small claims court paperwork. Alternatively, if you have a crime number, ring the local police station, find out which Bobby is dealing with your crime number, and speak directly to them. Ask them how the investigation is going - whether they have found out anything from the CCTV etc. If they haven't viewed it, your ringing will prompt them into action, rather than allowing it to disappear down their shirt cuff (cuffing a job). Good luck, and I hope that you manage to find the scrotes who damaged your motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsr341 Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 been back up there today , spoke to pub manager , who was more than happy to release cctv footage to me , then told me the last time they acctally burnt a car out , and usally hang around in the pubs beer garden 1-2am most weekends , all of which have been reported to police , so recon they probably known to the police hotel wasnt quite as help full , looked at me clueless when i qouted paragrath 9.2 of the data protection act 1998 and asked for a copy of the companys cctv policy ? garage next door , where we belive the item dumped on the car came from said theft was a constant problem , but have to contact head office , but will burn 2 copys off before the system starts writing over it , he also said if i have no joy with head office to come back and see him and he will allow me to veiw cctv fottage lets hope there is some thing on all these hours of cctv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Why don't you just claim against your insurance? (Assuming fully comp) You might be upset about the scumbags but is there honestly much difference between the idiots plain vandalising your motor and the damaged caused by somebody smashing a window and nicking your stereo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 because that screws up his renewals for the next 3/5 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 because that screws up his renewals for the next 3/5 years? My ncb is unaffected if I make only one claim in 2 years, I think that's fairly normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 My ncb is unaffected if I make only one claim in 2 years, I think that's fairly normal. Yeah, but if you claim you're also stuck with that insurance company as well - if you change companies, they wont honour a protected no claims with someone else... Its not worth the hassle of claiming on the insurance - i claimed for pothole damage against tfl, took 2 years of hassle to get the claim settled, i'd have been better off fixing it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsr341 Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 have you ever tryed insuring a group 20 car !!!!! you will understand my reluctance to claim on the insurance , plan on selling the car very soon (had it 8 1/2 years from new so quite fond of it ) and dont want my premium to be sky high on an avarge car , and my second point , why the hell should i ?????? you make a mistake you pay for it thats the way i was brought up , if my own actions had damaged my car then i wouldnt think twice or moan about the repairs , if we all let them get away with it where would we be ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 have you ever tryed insuring a group 20 car !!!!! you will understand my reluctance to claim on the insurance , plan on selling the car very soon (had it 8 1/2 years from new so quite fond of it ) and dont want my premium to be sky high on an avarge car , and my second point , why the hell should i ?????? you make a mistake you pay for it thats the way i was brought up , if my own actions had damaged my car then i wouldnt think twice or moan about the repairs , if we all let them get away with it where would we be ? I agree. However, I dont know the answer, but are you likely to get the money from the vandals even if they are caught? I'd have thought it very unlikely unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsr341 Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 I agree. However, I dont know the answer, but are you likely to get the money from the vandals even if they are caught? I'd have thought it very unlikely unfortunately. yea , i think your right , my aim is just to preserve any evidence there is , because the systems only hold it for a limited time and the police may not be able to collect it in time . in my chat with the manager today she tells me this group has been a nusence around the premises for some time , and think she would be glad to push the police a bit as well as she has got several call outs to them on file Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bobber Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 There's been no collision. It's therefore not any kind of RTC related offence The earlier message said that there had been a reportable RTC? was this a case of one car hitting another and then leaving which is inferred, or a case of a personal causing some damage? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max-ie Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 When you visited all these premises asking for CCTV did you ask them if the police had already been to collect a copy. If they didn't then you should start chasing them up. If you don't get any response then you should ask to see the inspector and make a complaint. They will soon go and collect the evidence once you start pestering them. They have a set investigation plan to follow and one of the criteria is CCTV evidence. Don't just think they're bogged down, they have to investigate it properly. They stand a better chance of identifying the offenders than you and the courts can order them to pay you compensation under new legislation thats come out. Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWhite Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 As has already been mentioned, it appears as if this is a case of criminal damage with suspects on CCTV. Definitely a good job for the Police - I would start jumping up and down and making complaints if your expectations are not being met. Customer Service is a big thing these days and YOU are the customer. As an insurance, I would visit the hotel and ensure the CCTV is put aside for collection. Many places will only keep it for 7 days. As a last warning, don't expect miracles from the CCTV. It may only show three dark shapes running over your car, but then again it might lead the investigator to a related vehicle involved or show suspects eaving the hotel before the incident. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I agree. However, I dont know the answer, but are you likely to get the money from the vandals even if they are caught? I'd have thought it very unlikely unfortunately. I have to say I agree with the above If you are looking to push a case personally for compensation you have to consider if they have any money to get from them. To put it bluntly if they have no money they can't make any payment to you. In theory you could sue them for damage / distress / inconvenience etc, and if they (or possible parents depending on age) are wealth its worth a try, if they are typical low life they are not likely to have any income (not legel any way!). If you want to prosecute on princibal work out if it is financially viable and how much it is worth to you. Sounds like the locals in the pub and hotel will probable have a very good idea of who the people were, maybe worth asking some of the regular customers if they will name names. May not want to get officially involved but if they give a name it gives the police (or you) a start to identify any video footage to and individual person. If you have a case worth pursuing may well depend on the quality of the footage and if it clearly shows any faces or other readily identifiable features (extra head, missing leg, etc might help), with out this you would be unlikely to win a case. I assume there were no witnesses or at least none willing to speak on the record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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