Paul Humphreys Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 As most of you know I have a Land Cruiser and it is fitted with a Superwinch X9. This has an uprated motor (4hp I think), anywas the last time I used it is did not deem to have much pulling power. I know my LC is about 3.5T and the winch is rated at 4t pulling power. Today I put the LC in a ditch on a tarmac road (don't ask!!). Anyway the winch ould not pull the LC out even with drive assist. We got it out in the end with 2 double line pulls from 2 winches. Mine and a mates on a 110, as just using the 110 winch all it was doing was pulling the 110 towards me, even with it sitting on a tarmaced road with his foot on the brakes. I am going to fit a bigger battery to the LC soon, to see if this solves the pulling power problem. If this does not sort it out I am going to replace the winch with a bigger one. I am not bothered about using it for comps or the like, but I would just like something that is going to pull me out when I next get stuck!! I am think of the TDS 12000 winch, any comments? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 How is your current winch earthed? when you say it would not put you out of the ditch was the winch stalling out? any smoke or was the motor warm/hot to touch? does the winch feel "normal" under no load, no grinding ill sounding noises etc .. a bigger battery will only help so much what are the amp ratings on the cables to the winch motor? as just using the 110 winch all it was doing was pulling the 110 towards me, even with it sitting on a tarmaced road with his foot on the brakes. does sound like you were a bit stuck did you try a double line pull with your winch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 How is your current winch earthed? when you say it would not put you out of the ditch was the winch stalling out? any smoke or was the motor warm/hot to touch? does the winch feel "normal" under no load, no grinding ill sounding noises etc .. a bigger battery will only help so much what are the amp ratings on the cables to the winch motor? does sound like you were a bit stuck did you try a double line pull with your winch? double line with both winches. it does get a little warm, but i would say not over hot. earth is stright to the battery and the live the same via an albright. yes my winch was stalling, under low load it was ok. no smoke thatg i could see. as for the cables, not sure on the rateing, but bigger than standard. but the battery is standard toyota one at 770amps/hour. paul ps doing this on my phone in Tesco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Ah ha, "doing this on my phone in Tesco." That explains the '3 for the price of 1' approach to posting :-) Good Luck with the real problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
explorer Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Might be the one way bearing in the winch brake seized, does the winch sound like it's under load all the time & the drum will get hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yella 90 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 i was going to suggest the brake as jim said above. could be a stuck brush in the motor aswel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 sounds like you were very stuck if it took a double line on the other vehicle as well, maybe your winch is performing ok although at the top end of its performance and you were hung up on something? or both of you have winches that need some looking into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 Home now Anyway I was down in a ditch at about 45 degrees, lockers were no help. Ditch was about 4 foot below road level. I have used the winch before for pulling others out and it worked ok. You could be right James, it could be at its limit. So a bigger winch could be the call. Explorer, it seems to sound ok. Break seems to work and not stick. I will try it with the Newmax battery after some rewireing, if it is still the same, then it is a new winch. But what to get? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I've only ever heard good things about the TDS winches. They're still a budget winch, but seem to be a good budget winch...if you know what I mean. I decided (thanks to a lot of helpful advice from those on the forum) to go for one of them myself when the time comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 I've only ever heard good things about the TDS winches. They're still a budget winch, but seem to be a good budget winch...if you know what I mean. I decided (thanks to a lot of helpful advice from those on the forum) to go for one of them myself when the time comes. That is what I have heard. Plus they do a 12000lb one Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguevogue Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I have used a TDS 12 from Goodwinch on the back of mine this year, it has been nothing but brilliant, with the new Bow2 fitted it broke the rope without slowing down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail4x4 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 My TDS is the 9500 one, I can only say I am more than happy with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Paul - reading between the lines, did you get stuck in Tesco's car park? First step is to get the winch under load and start measuring some voltages - what's the battery voltage with the system charging? What's the voltage across the winch terminals? Is there a voltage across the solenoid? That should help you identify where to look next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 Thanks John. Something ease to try. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 maybe wrong with my little knowlege of winches... but I see the answer being its not going to take much to effectively increase your weight when you're down the ditch... if you are 3.5t to start with. Has it pulled you out of anything simmilar or worse before? OR... am i completely wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Would thish winch be big enough? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180430520426&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT Compare it to the axle stand holding one end of it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I can just see that being mounted in the load bay and rigged as a centre winch; and all powered by a standard ZF power steering pump! Ha, well, a man can dream - better than nightmares (looking at the time of posting). Worth £50 as scrap; I wonder how much it does weigh? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Hi Paul, A few thoughts from me for what they're worth. I would have thought on double line you should have been able to shift yourself somewhere. Seized clutch bearings in the drum - unlikely as you say it's not getting particulary hot. I have experience of this on my M8000. Dead battery - if it still starts your truck-sized diesel that's unlikely too, although 770 AH may be a little less than ideal for heavy winching A winch that's stalled due to high load will get pretty hot, so.... Are the cable connections all clean and tight, inc those on the winch? I have been caught out here before. I am with Turbocharger re checking voltages etc at different places, check for any high resistance joints, power cable damage etc, clean battery terminals. What's the history of the motor? Has it ever been over worked/heated and damaged itself? If you have a tame local electrical engineer get them to check the motor out? If you have the funds it may be possible to turn this into an excuse you're looking for for a new winch Not sure about the current draw of a 12000lb unit but I expect you'll be looking at a very substantial battery or two. Do the Cruisers still have space to two under the bonnet? Good luck with the diagnostics/winch selection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 Would thish winch be big enough? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180430520426&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT Compare it to the axle stand holding one end of it up! Might be a big over kill maybe wrong with my little knowlege of winches... but I see the answer being its not going to take much to effectively increase your weight when you're down the ditch... if you are 3.5t to start with. Has it pulled you out of anything simmilar or worse before? OR... am i completely wrong? I have used it before and it had pulled it out, but I was not as stuck as I do not do getting stuck . I have used it a few times to pull my mates 110 out and that is about 3T (he has had it on a weight bridge) and it was ok. Iwill have to find out what motor it is as it is bigger than the standard one. Hi Paul, A few thoughts from me for what they're worth. I would have thought on double line you should have been able to shift yourself somewhere. Seized clutch bearings in the drum - unlikely as you say it's not getting particulary hot. I have experience of this on my M8000. Could be, but I think not as it will free spool stright away when I stop winching. Dead battery - if it still starts your truck-sized diesel that's unlikely too, although 770 AH may be a little less than ideal for heavy winching. I think the battery is just not up to it. It will restart the LC but it is 24V starting and will still start ok. A winch that's stalled due to high load will get pretty hot, so.... Are the cable connections all clean and tight, inc those on the winch? I have been caught out here before. I am with Turbocharger re checking voltages etc at different places, check for any high resistance joints, power cable damage etc, clean battery terminals. All connections ate tight and ok. But I will recheck them. I will try what John has said when I get time on my next days off. What's the history of the motor? Has it ever been over worked/heated and damaged itself? If you have a tame local electrical engineer get them to check the motor out? The motor came from a man on this forum and seems in good nick (as new). If you have the funds it may be possible to turn this into an excuse you're looking for for a new winch Not sure about the current draw of a 12000lb unit but I expect you'll be looking at a very substantial battery or two. Do the Cruisers still have space to two under the bonnet? Good luck with the diagnostics/winch selection Well I think a new battery is on the cards first, when they have some in stock, non yesterday, not till the 22nd. I have 3 battires fitted now 2 for starting and one for the fridge frezzer. I am going to get a Numax XV27 as I have a XV24 for for the FF. I am also thinking of going for one of those split charge systems where I can chose to link the 2 battires for better winching instead of the relay type I am using now. Might just try it with a set of jump leads for now and see how it goes. I think if I do have to get a new winch then it will be a 12000lb one and more than likley the TDS one with the extended drum as it will take more bunching when winching. Thanks for the help. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 Paul - reading between the lines, did you get stuck in Tesco's car park? First step is to get the winch under load and start measuring some voltages - what's the battery voltage with the system charging? What's the voltage across the winch terminals? Is there a voltage across the solenoid? That should help you identify where to look next. I can not do a lot at home as no trees!! Also today it is my wifes birthday. But I have tried it under no load and on all connections it only drops by about .6 of a volt. I know I need to try this under load. But I can not try it till next week. Chargeing voltage is 14.4V at 1600rpms. Everything is tight. I can turn the drum by hand when in free spool mode. Paul Edit to add, it is an ISKRA 12 4.2hp motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 Well stripped the winch down and everything looks fine. No water or dirt inside it. Life in the brake and grease in the gear box. All contacts are fine. Motor is still like new. So time to refit and try it again. Will try it with jump leads to the 3rd battery. To see if it is any better, if it is then I will invest in a new battery. If not then it is a new winch!! Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymorris Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Well stripped the winch down and everything looks fine. No water or dirt inside it. Life in the brake and grease in the gear box. All contacts are fine. Motor is still like new. So time to refit and try it again. Will try it with jump leads to the 3rd battery. To see if it is any better, if it is then I will invest in a new battery. If not then it is a new winch!! Paul Well if you decide to sell your winch why not give somebody that's local a chance to buy it Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Have you sorted it yet Paul? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 Will let you know Garry. At least it will save posting. Lol. Not yet James, was going to test it today. But got called in to work and I am still at work! I hope to give it a go tomorrow. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 Well looks like it was down to "power" I have just retested it. Had no time till now as I was working!! Anyway, with the main battery it would just move a 110 with the brakes on. When linked with the 3rd battery it pulled it fine, this was with the top layer on the drum. It would move it along dryish concrate ok. So it proves one other thing, my LC is heaver that a 110 as his moved and mine did not. So it all comes down to I was "well stuck" . So time to get a new main battery Thanks for all the help. I think I might change the winch anyway for a bigger one. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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