M005 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 As the title says. I notice a shift to autos for offroading, and conversions of Defenders to autos. What are the benefits or downsides of driving an auto offroad? I guess you'd lose some of the instantanious power / torque that a manual would give, and also wouldn't be able to keep the revs up (although possibly if it was locked in 1st??) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Big advantage I see is hill climbing, not having to worry about changing gear half way up, and not loosing any power while its changing. I love them (it) for slow speed control, vehicle placement, can go instantly from accelerator to brake. Two pedles, two feet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I'm not convinced myself, have driven an auto 300Tdi Discovery off road and it felt very sluggish and kept changing gear when I didn't want it to. That said it is less leg work, so for those off-roading in time-sensitive applications (ie. competitive) it may be a better bet. I am a fan of manual for the simplicity and redundancy it brings, it does mean more stuff to do as a driver...but I find that adds to the challenge and fun of it Manual on the road every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 As Ross says, the two main benefits are the control over slow-speed manouvres and the instant power. The main downside is hill descents. It takes away a lot of the engine braking and depending on the gradient, 2nd low isn't low enough and 1st low is too low, so you end up on the brakes and hence not quite in control of the vehicle... To regain the engine braking, it's best to blip the throttle as you start to descend, but I found that to be counter-intuitive - and slightly scary!! My first experience of an auto descending a hill resulted in the back wheels in the air and having to bury the throttle to regain ground contact!!! If you are going up hill, leave it in D and it will sort itself out... Just my experience... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I'm not that experienced, but there seems plenty of engine braking if its locked in 1 or sometimes 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 In a challenge situation, it's not that crucial as the chances are you aren't really adhering to any 'proper' off-road driving techniques. So jumping on the brakes isn't too much of a problem (and there's normally a tree in close proximity to stop you falling over or getting too out of control). In 'normal' off-road driving, as I said, the gear ratios can seem too different and hence 2nd low leads to braking and (slight) loss of control... whereas 1st low leads to too much engine braking and the situation that I found myself in... Maybe others have found different...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I depends of your own experience I prefer auto's off road I even race with one but there not without there problems. but the Disco Td5 is the only car I owned which has less than 4.2lts and auto. I still think a 2.5 is not powerful enough to enjoy the benefits of an auto were as I normally struggle with manual not being strong enough to take the power. I do drive breaking most of the rules for example I cover the brake on hill descent to keep the engine revs down but you try to explain that to someone that's only been in 4x4's for a few years your wasting your time they just think your standing on them. If you descend in D as the revs clime it changes gear and will keep doing so hence keep the revs down. I do stick to 1 or 2 myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwcooper Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 It also saves your drivetrain no end too. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_P Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I'm not that experienced, but there seems plenty of engine braking if its locked in 1 or sometimes 2. Compare it to a manual with a diesel up front, then you will notice a big difference between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Well I've driven a RRC 3.9 auto and a 300tdi 90, seemed similar to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_P Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 On a big downhill slope? I know that a friend's V8 Disco will run away downhill in 1st with poor engine braking compared to diesels. And yes the converter was engaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Different places, same conditions. Both had plenty of engine braking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 See you by the swings, I'll be on the roundabouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_P Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I also found that the auto crawls along in 1st at a pace that you would likely be in 2nd or 3rd in a manual for. I don't know if this was down to the engine idle speed but it had the normal idle range for an EFi. Example, first low on the Disco V8 was like second high in my 88. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 That would be because of the lower ratio diffs in the series (unless they've been changed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterR Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 We took my auto D1 to the Croisiere Blanche last month. For slippery climbs the auto was fantastic, put in D and press the go pedal. Descents to start with were a little scary as the ratios weren't ideal, low 2nd would see you running away with yourself but 1st needed judicious squirts of the throttle to keep the back end under control. Certainly concentrates the mind with some of the slopes and drop offs we had too contend with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Or, get the best of both worlds with Auto + full manual valve body + deep gearing. As the meerkat says: simples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milliejasper1111 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 See you by the swings, I'll be on the roundabouts. CLASSIC!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M005 Posted February 12, 2010 Author Share Posted February 12, 2010 Or, get the best of both worlds with Auto + full manual valve body + deep gearing. As the meerkat says: simples There's always one smart... I like to auto idea (read novelty) and have liked it int he Freelander, just not the freelander which is for sale. Think I'll stick to manual then, got a lot to relearn anyway when I eventually get a vehicle Currently looking at 300TDI Discos >£1500 if anyone knows of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverdrive Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Well I used a RRC in ALRC events for a few years with great success. I tended to leave it locked in 1st low for the majority of the time, purely because I got caught out on a loose shale climb when it changed down from second to first and spun the wheels up losing traction. Keeping it in first allows you more control of the power, though perhaps more momentum was required in places to allow for a certain amount of part throttle on climbs. Descents were ok using cadence braking if required, but to be honest it was rarely needed. It certainly managed to upset a lot of 90 drivers in North Wales! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Mark - go try both and decide what you prefer. I went auto and prefer it; you're welcome to come and drive mine if you want some first-hand experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robhybrid Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 My winch challenge vehicle is auto and the control whilst winching is fantastic. I used to run manual and the manual was definitely better on the open road and possibly better at putting the engine power to the wheels. For my driving style, I prefer the auto. I can get the wheels helping the winch without them spinning wildly, I believe in most situations it is best for the wheels not to spin whilst winching, spinning wheels tend to dig holes that you then have to climb out of. Spinning wheels in my opinion increase the chance of damage to axle components. I ran my truck for several years with standard 10 spline rear half shafts. If I were to for example have to drive(not winch) through a mud run I think I would prefer a manual I wold also prefer huge horsepower to go with it. Horses for courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robhybrid Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 When driving down a hill forwards that you should have winched down. I find it very useful when the slope is so steep that if you were being held back in gear the back end would lift. Because the auto box tends to allow the vehicle to (run away)when in D The back end does not lift the same as it would with a manual and you have got the option of planting your foot on the throttle if you think it might try and go end over end forwards, in a manual I don't think you could do more than put your foot on the clutch if you had initially set the wrong gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Auto all the way. I had one in my 110, but as said before the 2.5 is not big enough. Now with a 4.2td and 4.88 diffs it is great, low 1st is lower than a standard LR low 1st. BTW it is a Land Cruiser Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 i run an HP24 in a 90 with a TGV, 3.54 diffs and underdrive. You do loose some HP through the box, but the extra of the TGV makes up for it i feel. Two pedles, two feet! which makes things much simpler and easier to control - say going down over rocky steps or climbing up them, theres no lurching out of control as you can hold it on the brakes as soon as the power comes on/off. so you end up on the brakes and hence not quite in control of the vehicle... more control i would of thought. it depends on the level of experience and severity of what you are driving. Because the auto box tends to allow the vehicle to (run away)when in D The back end does not lift the same as it would with a manual and you have got the option of planting your foot on the throttle if you think it might try and go end over end forwards, in a manual I don't think you could do more than put your foot on the clutch if you had initially set the wrong gear. this is a big plus point, its much easier to drive out of a descent if you have it in too low a gear and need to get the front end out. As mentioned for winch assisting its superb. You can lock them 1, 2,3 so can set the 'top speed for a climb with the ability for it to change down if more grunt is needed) the underdrive makes it superb off the mark with low + Udrive but not a very quick top speed!!!! excellent for winching control too. Plus it is much easier on the drive train as its less likely to be shock loaded. and you dont have to change clutches again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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