Simon B Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 (edited) Been browsing for more bits to buy and spotted this http://www.x-eng.co.uk/X-Deflex.asp?MID=2 Does anyone nkow anything about it or how good it is etc. Sounds pretty amazing even if I dont need 16" of travel a firmer back end is always good on road. Edited August 4, 2010 by western clickable link amended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Been browsing for more bits to buy and spotted this http://www.x-eng.co.uk/X-Deflex.asp?MID=2 Does anyone nkow anything about it or how good it is etc. Sounds pretty amazing even if I dont need 16" of travel a firmer back end is always good on road. Hmm, I think its a nice idea, but more bits to go wrong. Its ok, if you have your own mechanic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 To be fair, its a very simple mechanism - so hardly worthy of the 'more things to go wrong' argument, which usually applies to the likes of air suspension and abs... I have seen the antiroll bar in question - the prototype has been on the back of Simon's truck for the best part of 2 years as it was developed and tested, and I have had a good look several times. The ability to have softer springs on the back, but still maintain decent road holding is a massive advantage, and this achieves it with very little in the way of 'things to go worng' - it is essentially a halfshaft and a freewheeling hub - both of which have been in use on land rovers since the dawn of time. Cheers Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 I had a look at this at Billing on the back of Simon's 110 very impressive (and simple!) There would be one going on the back of my truck if it were a 110 and not a 90! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 looks like a nice solution - but the name is a bit close to a certain poly bush maker...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 It looks very straight forward to me so not sure what the problem would be if it went wrong, I didn't have anti roll bars for ages, so it's not like you can't drive without one. It's on my list.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Great idea. And using Rover parts as well makes it really cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 If I fit one to my challenge mota, can I upgrade the shaft and flange to Ashcroft HD one's??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 I'm curious...have the track rod ends been properly tested for this application? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 i dont like to knock these things, but i'm intrigued.... I've done quite a bit of research into how anti roll bars affect how a car handles for my car, and to summarise it basically, the stiffer the rear is, the more likely a car is to oversteer, the stiffer the front is, the more likely it is to understeer. Our daily driver (an Audi A4) is quite an understeerey car as standard, and if you look at the figures for most upgraded anti roll bar kits for it, the kit will either provide a rear only bar thats 60-70% stiffer than stock, or will provide a front and rear kit, where the front bar is around 60% stiffer and the rear bar is around 150% stiffer. The overall result of either approach is that the rear end becomes a little stiffer than standard in proportion to the front, and this makes the car more neutral to drive. Given this product appears only to offer a rear bar, and is hugely stiff when compared to either the thin standard ARB, or none at all, it makes me think it would make the vehicle very likely to have a "loose" rear end when driven in anger on tarmac, and generally be quite skittish and unsettled to drive, especially when the roads are less grippy, such as when its raining? Thaughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Understeer on your A4 has more to do with it being front wheel drive than the suspension set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 The A4 is 4wd mate. Most manufacturers design their cars to understeer, as its deemed "safe". The front end will wash out before the rear has reached its limits of grip, most peoples first reaction when something bad happens is to lift off and brake, and normality resumes. Even 4wd/RWD cars will do this in standard trim. In years gone by, when manufacturers didnt do this, you got cars like the fabled 205GTI, which has an extremely neutral balance as standard, giving the excellent handling its famed for, unfortunately as a result of this if you back off the throttle mid corner, the back end will step out due to the weight transfer. My point is simply that if you take any vehicle, then hugely stiffen up the rear of it, it will have a greater tendancy to oversteer and become skittish as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 That is a valid and interesting point . . . I suspect it will also depend greatly on the power available as well though - a NA 110 is never going to oversteer even if you welded the axle to the chassis as there is so little power . . . but a tuned TD5/puma or V8 engined 110 could be a whole different story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Its not just about power though, carry a bit too much speed into a corner and a normal defender will understeer, stiffen the rear enough and the back end will step out instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Some interesting points there! The Track-rod ends have been tested. They shear at about 9 ton of force which is equivalent to cornering at about 6G. Unfortunately, the vehicle will have rolled long before you get to 6G so it's difficult to test in anger. 6G is the highest recorded lateral acceleration for a Formula 1 car. Even a Ferrari can only manage 1G - so you are probably safe in a Land Rover! I have found that if you nail it round a corner in the dry, the first thing that happens is it lifts the inside front wheel - which tends to slow you down. If you try the same cornering speed with the roll bar unlocked, it lifts the inside front and back wheel - which is obviously more dangerous as you are close to rolling. You have to try pretty hard to get it to do either. I find that my 110 tends to drift sideways if you corner too fast in the wet. You can control whether it under or over steers by the amount of throttle you apply. With the bar locked, it is slightly more prone to over steer - but it's pretty marginal and you can still control it on the throttle. I don't think manufacturers prefer understeer because it's safe - it's because you have to try harder to get a front wheel drive car to understeer than a RWD to over steer - so it's less likely to happen. When it does happen, over steer is generally easier to correct. However - this is at the margins of the handling envelope of an average Land Rover. Fitting the anti roll bar will definitely change the handling of the vehicle. The reduced roll and more positive feel outweigh the possibility of more over steer if you are right on the limit. looks like a nice solution - but the name is a bit close to a certain poly bush maker...... Flo-flex you mean? (they used to be called Deflex before they went 'bust' and re-opened a week later with a new name). We've put 2 years testing in to X-Deflex and we are really pleased with the end result. All the comment I have received so far from users has been very positive too. If anyone buys one and is not impressed with the improvement - mail it back to us and we'll give a full refund! I'm that convinced it's a good thing! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 does it limit the flex on the rear axle at all? I think that's the whole point of an anti-roll bar, isn't it? The point of this one is it is quick release for when you go off road, allowing soft springs for off road but good body control when on. I am sure it is all in the X-Eng literature if you read it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 The A4 is 4wd mate. ooooooooooooh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 Steve: Lol! Simon: Thats good to know that its not silly bad. Does your 110 have a front antiroll bar fitted? I think Deflex are still trading are they not? Still appear to have an online shop: http://www.deflex.co.uk/catalog/index.php And their address is close to but not the same as flo-flex's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 How does the locking mechanism work? Otherwise looks a nice product when disengaged,off road, does it limit the ammount of travel on the axle..... i can read, haven't read the blurb as yet, hence the question. looks a good bit of kit. is the roll resistence greater thana standard bar when engaged? are they available for the front aswell? * Unlocked it will allow 16" of suspension travel without binding or the knuckles inverting. * Locked it will be apply 4x the roll resistance of a standard defender bar. * Can be locked and unlocked without the vehicle being level - it will just change state when the torque on the bar is relieved as you drive. * Can be locked or unlocked in seconds without having to lie under the vehicle or get muddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 It's just a free-wheeling hub, like you get on front axles Very clever design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 Thanks Adam - answered for me! It is just a bog standard Freewheeling Hub - it was impossible to make a clutch mechanism that was as strong for the same cost. Use of a FWH has reduced the cost of the kit by £100 or so - and actually made it easier to use! Originally it was going to have a clutch mechanism which looks remarkably like that used in a certain 8274 freespool! Aragorn - the 110 has no front anti roll bar fitted. I tried to make an unlockable front bar - but there simply isn't enough space! It's tight enough trying to make a fixed bar! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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