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Daan

timing kit 300 tdi with lt77 box?

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Right, I rebuild my 300 tdi engine, which I started up today. All sounded well at tickover, but when I put my foot down (no load), there emerged a ridiculous amount of black smoke, while running like a dog. It never used to smoke, and the pump has never been turned up.

This makes me believe that the timing isnt quite right. I set it up with a 9.5 MM drill bit in the pump and with the woodruff key in the crank facing north, eyeballed as you do.

I now am considering to buy a timing kit to do this properly. THis, however represent me with a problem: It is a 300 TDI but with a 2.5 TD bell housing to make it bolt up to the LT77 box. So which timing pin will fit? Is it the 300 tdi or the td, Is the thread for the wading plug different or is the diameter of the pin different? Or have I snookered myself into a mess?

Also, any recommendations on which one to get, sealey or difflock or just go to a dealer, what has worked well for others? Th other thing revealed from a search on this very forum is a reverse switch from my gearbox as atimingpin. Sounds daft, but would it work for me?

Daan

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For the bell housing I used a spare breather kit fitting cut down flush and drilled to the right size with the drill bit used to lock the fly. Works perfectly and cost next to nothing. That plus another bit for the pump makes for a much cheaper set :)

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Morning Daan

Did you slacken the three FIP bolts when you fitted the new belt? and the other thing I'd check is that the air intake/ boost side of the manifold is all tight and no restrictions....I have found birdnests in airfilter boxs of LandRovers with snorkels that have been laid up for a while :blink:

If the 2.5TD flywheel housing pins the 300 flywheel at tdc then it should be fine to pin it like that

cheers

Steveb

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Morning Daan

Did you slacken the three FIP bolts when you fitted the new belt? and the other thing I'd check is that the air intake/ boost side of the manifold is all tight and no restrictions....I have found birdnests in airfilter boxs of LandRovers with snorkels that have been laid up for a while :blink:

If the 2.5TD flywheel housing pins the 300 flywheel at tdc then it should be fine to pin it like that

cheers

Steveb

Yes, I did slacken of the bolts. Your comment at the bottom is the question I am asking. Anyone knows?

daan

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Daan,

Think the difflock kit has both flywheel pins in it. I have one you could borrow if you want??

Adrian

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If you lie on you back you can look up through timing hole in the flywheel housing until the slot in the flywheel lines up with hole.

You then don't need a pin

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make sure you chose the narrow slot on the flywheel edge, not the other slot which is much wider.

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Timing kit which contains both pins now on order (dont like the eyeballing idea Dan!) . Thanks for the replies.

Daan

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make sure you chose the narrow slot on the flywheel edge, not the other slot which is much wider.

See, I've been reading this everywhere, but I ever only saw one slot in my flywheel...

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Right, time for an update. I received the timing kit with 3 pins, for all 3 landrover diesels (2.5, 200 tdi 300 tdi).

The first problem I found is that none of them fitted to the wading plug thread. This I got solved by having a hole drilled in a sumpplug. However, this turned out to be a waste of time, because the timing pin doesnt actually touch the flywheel. As it happens, the wading plug on a 2.5 is in a horizontal axis, while the tdi is on a vertical axis. It turns out that the 2.5 doesnt actualy use the wading plug hole at all, but has a dedicated hole on the side of the flywheel housing, about 45 deg from TDC. The pins fit to this perfectly, but the pump is at best 45 degree out. So no pin is any good at all. Dans suggestion is no good either, because you cant see the groove. (I now do understand the suggestion, it would work if the wading plug was in a vertical axis, and you could have seen the groove).

So, snookered basically. I need an acurate way to find TDC. I tryd removing nr1 injector and put a measurement clock in the hole to find TDC, but because the injectore sits on an angle, this is pretty flaky. Fitting a 200 TDI bellhouse would solve the problem, but not keen for obvious reasons.

So who has got any better ideas? :(

Daan

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Right, time for an update. I received the timing kit with 3 pins, for all 3 landrover diesels (2.5, 200 tdi 300 tdi).

The first problem I found is that none of them fitted to the wading plug thread. This I got solved by having a hole drilled in a sumpplug. However, this turned out to be a waste of time, because the timing pin doesnt actually touch the flywheel. As it happens, the wading plug on a 2.5 is in a horizontal axis, while the tdi is on a vertical axis. It turns out that the 2.5 doesnt actualy use the wading plug hole at all, but has a dedicated hole on the side of the flywheel housing, about 45 deg from TDC. The pins fit to this perfectly, but the pump is at best 45 degree out. So no pin is any good at all. Dans suggestion is no good either, because you cant see the groove. (I now do understand the suggestion, it would work if the wading plug was in a vertical axis, and you could have seen the groove).

So, snookered basically. I need an acurate way to find TDC. I tryd removing nr1 injector and put a measurement clock in the hole to find TDC, but because the injectore sits on an angle, this is pretty flaky. Fitting a 200 TDI bellhouse would solve the problem, but not keen for obvious reasons.

So who has got any better ideas? :(

Daan

Hi Daan, How about using the existing forward facing drain hole as a datum (it has to be at the bottom) and scribe a line from this on the bottom of the bellhousing. Then drill a new hole on this line in the bottom of the bell housing to coincide with the flywheel. You can then use Dan's eyeball method, or tap the hole with a thread for the relevant tool. Once tapped, you can fit another wading plug, or leave it untapped and fit a suitable rubber bung or dolop of mastic/silcone.

Regards, Diff.

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Hi, at the cost of removing the other injectors to make turning easier, put a piston stop down the injector hole on number one, rotate till piston gently hits stop, mark off on crank pulley. rotate motor back the other way until it hits again, mark and divide the marks halfway, that is bang on TDC.

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Look at the rockers, or use the timing mark in the front (you'll probably need a mirror and a keen eye though).

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Ive never used a locking pin on the crank before, ive allways as you said daan, eyeballed the woodruff key upto the timing mark on the timing chest.

Are you sure its timing ? And not a air restriction somewhere ?

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Right, thanks for the replys again, I came up with a different solution: there are 4 equally spaced holes in the bottom serpentine pulley. Put 2 long m8 bolts in the horizontal opposing ones, and than put a spirit level on these and once it shows level, it is a pretty accurate way of showing TDC. I set up the pump with the pin, and the result is a good running engine. I think it is as good as it gets but if the engine comes out again for what ever reason, I will be fitting a 200 TDI bellhouse.

Daan

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See, I've been reading this everywhere, but I ever only saw one slot in my flywheel...

might be on 200tdi engines only then, My flywheel is the factory fitted original, so it could be just on these engines.

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If you can see the mark on the flywheel then count the number of teeth on the outside edge and work out how many degrees each one represents, this would allow you to work out where to put a new timing mark accurately, if you understand what I mean.

if you fit a new timing belt or rebuild an engine then finding TDC is very very important. On my Cavalier I had ot measure the valve lift with a TDi to ensure it was accurate, doing it by eye just isn't good enough.

However one good idea on the Cav was a tiing pin drilled and bonded into the bellhousing to line up with the timing mark on the flywheel.

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might be on 200tdi engines only then, My flywheel is the factory fitted original, so it could be just on these engines.

I reckon its to do with balancing. You see it on brake discs where a grooved section has been removed and i thought that was a balancing thing. If thats right, some flywheels will need a large amount removing = big groove to balance them and others will need next to nothing, hence the difference from wheel to wheel... Just a thought.

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Could you have used a TD flywheel on the 300tdi engine? That might have meant it lined up with the bellhousing marks at TDC.

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I think that would have worked actually. The link that ralph gave, shows the problem of the plug being in a horizontal axis. The owner hasnt thought of the setup problem by the looks of it, so I am not the only one. :rolleyes:

Anyway, the landrover has now passed the MOT, so after 16 months of being stationary, I finally can drive it again.

Looking forward to lots of snow this winter!

Daan

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Prob easier/as much hassle to swap the bellhousing now..... however, i have a TD flywheel in the garage if you ever want to give it a try... Doesnt sound like you need it as it sounds like its working ok now.

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Thanks, I might take you up on the offer when the engine or gearbox is out again.

The td bellhouse has the advantage of the large 1/2" fitting at 45° which I already use for a large breather pipe, very much needed if you go wading with a piping hot clutch.

Daan

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