diesel fuel additives

[Gambit]

Having trawled the interweb for some clues, can't say that I have found anything conclusive - one way or the other.

Has anyone on here got any experience - good or bad - with adding diesel additives to their fuel.

Noticed any improvement in the economy?

Any adverse effects?

TIA Andrew

[TS888]

Perhaps some injector cleaner every 6 months or so. Otherwise I think it's mostly snake oil.

[Steve King]

Any improvement in economy is likely to be negated by the cost of the snake oil!

[JivingDaddy]

It's not just any potential economy improvements, the additives also keep the jets clearer and save having to worry about cleaning them in the future (hopefully). Every six months (depending on number of miles and type) should help.

[RustyNissanPrairie]

I've been running 2 stroke oil in my 2.5NA for awhile, 300mls to a fulltank. Theory being that it adds the lubrication thats missing with the low sulphur fuels knocking around nowadays. Probably a waste of time with the Lucas/Cav DPC pump but might be beneficial to a Puma owner?

A lot of information on South African forums re 2stroke oil vs sulphur levels.

[TSD]

I keep a bottle of Millers diesel additive in each truck (currently 200tdi and TGV, and the previous 300tdi and 200tdis) and have done for years. I use it occasionally when I fill up normally, and every time I fill up with supermarket fuels. I'm not looking for performance or economy improvements, and I don't much care about smoke. As for RustyNissanPrairie, the theory is to improve lubrication of the FIP, not designed for modern ULSDs.

I can't say I really notice a difference day to day, and lack of evidence is not proof, but previous engines have gone well past 200k running sweetly with original injectors and FIP. The TGV is up well past 130K and never smokes at all.

Snake oil maybe (probably, even) but with average cost around £10 a year, it's a cheap one in my book. Right up there with spending a few quid extra on decent oils and regular changes etc., I could probably save a few quid not doing it, but when I see rattly, smoky, oily trucks with much lower mileages than mine, it just convinces me that few quid is well spent.

[Gambit]

TSD that all makes a lot of sense.

I guess I was more worried about any adverse effects, but they'd have come out by now I suppose

[Off Road Toad]

Not a fuel additive but 10K boost gets my vote! squirt it straight in to the intake and watch in amazement at the s$1t that comes out of the exhaust! i use this on my disco once a year (which is not as often as 10K recommend as i do alot more than 10k miles in a year) My disco has done 200k miles now and i rarely check the oil or service it in fact the service intervals have worked out to be something like every 40k miles but the thing seems to love it

Steve.

[nicks90]

another vote for 10k diesel boost aerosol.

first time you use it the amount of rubbish it spits out the exhaust is quite impressive! First time i used it, the street looked like i had set fire to a pile of tyres on the drive, the smoke spewing down the street was hilarious! Subsequent applications give less smoke as i presume the carbon build up is less after 5k miles of use. Now i use it every 2nd service - approx 10k miles.

engine runs sweet as a nut afterwards and you can definitely tell the difference.

[adam300Tdi90]

(10k boost) Is it ok to add down the snorkel/side breather? Or do you have to take the filter out?

[Gambit]

Did see 10k boost and wondered about it, just seemed odd... may be worth a look though

[Oakmaster]

errr..................what exactly is 10K boost??? (for the less well informed amoungst us! - Id rerally like to have the street looked like i had set fire to a pile of tyres on the drive - LOL Jk!)

[nicks90]

10k boost diesel is an aerosol cleaning spray can that you squirt into your engine at high idle, it cleans all the inlet pipework through to the engine and combustion chambers and injectors and exhaust manifold.

hence if your engine is fairly well carboned up you get a massive plume of smoke out the back. If your egr isnt blanked off i bet your engine will be fairly sooty, especially if the valve is leaking like most do.

if the engine is spotless internally then not alot seems to happen.

no you cant spray it into your snorkel. best thing to do is pop off your top pipe into the inlet manifold and squirt it in there. Wouldnt advise squirting it into the turbo though as it might not like the bearing seals and might not stay atomised through the intercooler.

[TS888]

I used a similar product called Seafoam on the 3.9 in my RRC in the US -- it made white smoke in quantities similar to a house fire... I think it successfully converted the last few neighbors who didn't hate me!

[FridgeFreezer]

At the risk of bringing actual science into the discussion, I can vouch for at least one of Redex's products - we did a fleet of ~40 indoor karts with the petrol additive and the average lap times (computer timed) did drop and the engines stripped (routine job) were cleaner (less coked up) than usual. Did smoke the place out a bit first go though

[reads90]

I keep a bottle of Millers diesel additive in each truck (currently 200tdi and TGV, and the previous 300tdi and 200tdis) and have done for years. I use it occasionally when I fill up normally, and every time I fill up with supermarket fuels. I'm not looking for performance or economy improvements, and I don't much care about smoke. As for RustyNissanPrairie, the theory is to improve lubrication of the FIP, not designed for modern ULSDs.

I can't say I really notice a difference day to day, and lack of evidence is not proof, but previous engines have gone well past 200k running sweetly with original injectors and FIP. The TGV is up well past 130K and never smokes at all.

Snake oil maybe (probably, even) but with average cost around £10 a year, it's a cheap one in my book. Right up there with spending a few quid extra on decent oils and regular changes etc., I could probably save a few quid not doing it, but when I see rattly, smoky, oily trucks with much lower mileages than mine, it just convinces me that few quid is well spent.

Millers is a good stuff if just to replace the lack of sulphur in the fuel now days. The millers gives back the mid range power Which the 200 and 300 tdi can be lacking. Side affect is that it cleans the injectors

Would still use it but can find it in Australia , so use an Aussie similar stuff

Ali

[JimAttrill]

I used to decoke cars using RAF OM15 which was a red-coloured hydraulic oil, rather like ATF. Clouds of white smoke - once someone called out the Fire Brigade as they thought our hangar was on fire - and they were a few miles away!

I used Stanadyne additive a few times - it is the only additive made by a maker of diesel pumps and injectors. Expensive though. Improved the starting on an old 2.25 diesel a lot, so it does do something. It ups the cetane rating of the diesel, which is apparently more of a problem in the US than elsewhere. Also stops waxing in the winter, which is not a problem here ...

[sparg]

know this crops up every now and then, but hadn't expected that, on adding the appropriate measure of millars (2003 td5 110 with 100K on) because I thought cleaning the injectors a bit might be a good idea (how do these cleaner reckon to work?) I was suprised by an instant improvement in low-end performance. Clearly, the additive is raising the cetane rating.

I'm finding that the slight hesitation at low revs, when changing gear or setting off is removed. The vehicle now accelerates quite happily from 30mph in 5th (on the flat) - I always had to change to 4th to do that.

I'm also finding improved fuel economy - quite definitely, though I haven't precisely measured - but travel same route every day and know from experience where the fuel guage will be after each 50mile journey. This improvement is very likely down to a drastic reduction in gear changes on corners and hills.

What I'm not finding is any improvement in revving - and that might be down to something else (binding wastegate actuator, mucky MAF, atc) - the vehicle was always 'reluctant' to rev - it 'wants' to change out of 3rd at 30mph, out of 4th at 40-45 mph, and, whilst now blissfully quiet at 50 -55mph, the engie noise gets a bit thrashy at 60-65.

IN fact, given a long enough airfield, it will actually climb through 75 upto 80+ (on the clock) but it's bloody noisy.

So now, with the improved bottom end, it has a power band that is usable, but still narrower than (I feel) reasonable.

My old 2002 '90 that was prematurely 'recycled' by we_pike_anycar.com was more willing - though it had no cat +straightthru centre pipe. You could hear the turbo whistle for miles - I can't hear my current one at all (though it must be working, or it would never reach 70, I'm sure)

So I'm thinking that the additive is working at the moment, not because of cleaning but through increased cetane rating, but this has more effect at low revs and the advantage is neutralised at higher revs by the engine's inability to take advantage of it

I wonder if a boost gauge could tell me more?

[sparg]

I notice this thread seems too old to resurface.

Still, I'm now going to try a fill up without additive, to see if the low-end flat spot returns

[sparg]

_{Well, I decided to experiment, and not put additive into the next tank full.}

_{I got about 10 miles, and in exasperation, stopped and put a 50ml treatment in again.}

_{The old lethargy at low revs was back. I had to work the box to get up to speed.}

_{After the treatment, about a couple of miles along the road, the new low end pulling power had returned. At varying speeds, between 35-40mph and and 60+ mph, it was like driving an automatic.}

_{So the effect is certainly not down to 'cleaner operation' (which, according to the instructions, should ensue after about 200 miles - but I had done 400), so must be down to increased cetane rating..}

_{So it looks as though a £90 fillup needs a £2.50 shot of additive to run nicely.}

_{The question is: do I actually make that up in increased fuel economy?}

_{My next task is to measure, with and without, a tankful each time, taking the same journey each day.}

_{Will post result in a couple of weeks.}

[gruntus]

Keep it going Sparg, this thread has sparked my interest in goignto Halfords this evening for some Millers!

Cheers

G

[sparg]

Yeah - what I can't get my head around is why I might have been having this flat spot problem in the first place. I'd even wondered if it was a pedal mapping problem, or was it just that the td5 engine is inherently not very torque-y below the turbo range, and that couple with the 110 being heavier than my previous 90.

However, now it's like I have a different turbo fitted!

Of course, all this doesn't explain why the performance gains fall away at higher revs...

[sparg]

Just had it suggested (over on Landyzone) that it could conceivably be that I previously had poor compression (rings or valves) and the improved cetane ratig has compensated for it.

That might imply that a healthy engine wouldn't see the gains I'd made, which kind of make sense.

initial back-of-the-envelope calculations conservatively show an improved economy of 10% - but I'm skeptical, since if it was that easy, everyone would be doing it.

To put figures on that, for countryside driving - accelerating and decelerating, up and down the box, rarely stopped, rarely high speed cruising - topping out occasionally at 70, usually in the 40-60 range, - I usually get 26-27 mpg out of a 110 doublecab td5.

This last 440 miles, I've had what seems to be 33 mpg! - that difference can't be right.

I need a much better set of figures, and even so, the explanation is more likely to be that I haven't (for the last 20K miles) been getting the performance I should have been. This is much more likely than the idea that I've stumbled across some 'magic formula'!

I'll collect better figures and post them

[G4FUJ]

Keep it going Sparg, this thread has sparked my interest in going to Halfords this evening for some Millers!

Tried that on Monday (needed some other things anyway) to find that my local Halfrauds has turned almost completely into a bike shop.

No Millers products on the shelf (but I did get Castrol lead replacement for the Morgan). Will have to look online for alternative sources...

[wack61]

They have a stockist link on the website

http://www.millersoils.co.uk/