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MegaSquirt / MicroSquirt/ MegaJolt and V1, V2, V3 and MS-II


FridgeFreezer
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After a couple of queries from people I thought I'd post up to clarify what does what:

MegaSquirt is a complete fuel and ignition ECU, it can run fuel only, ignition only or both together.

MegaJolt is a cut-down MegaSquirt that only has the components needed for ignition. It can't be used to do fuel injection.

There are different revisions of the MegaSquirt main circuit board (PCB) as it has developed:

V1.01 - early first run of boards, you're very unlikely to have one of these. Harder to modify for spark, but doable.

V2.2 - 2nd version of boards, popular and I think still available. Easier to modify for ignition and other options. Slightly cheaper than a V3 board (~£170 built / ~£120 kit form)

V3 - Latest board, upgraded spec PCB and components for better temperature range, heat-sinking, layout and idiot-proofing (protected power supplies/inputs). Also comes with an ignition circuit already built in as well as a proto area for modifying / adding bits. About £220 built / £170 kit form I think) but well worth the extra IMHO.

MS-II (NOT to be confused with revisions above) is an upgraded processor for the MegaSquirt. It has more memory and program storage, is faster and has all sorts of other features. It should plug into the CPU socket on an existing MegaSquirt board. It runs a different version of the MegaSquirt software that has more bells and whistles.

MicroSquirt (clicky) is basically a V3 PCB shrunk down, it can't handle huge injector currents (not a problem for us) and connects slightly differently but is fuinctionally identical. No idea on price but damn it's cool - need to persuade the lodger to 'squirt his motorbike :D

The best UK source for kits or ECU's is Bill Shurvinton, PM or e-mail me for his details.

In all cases ignition options can be:

- You lock the dizzy advance and MegaSquirt acts as an ignition amp as well as looking after timing & dwell (just picks up from the points) driving your original coil through the dizzy cap & rotor

- Using a Ford EDIS setup (crank sensor, toothed wheel, EDIS control box and coil packs) MegaSquirt talks to the EDIS and controls the timing, the EDIS looks after dwell and all that.

- You stick VB921 ignition driver chips in the MegaSquirt and use a crank sensor and coil packs or coil on plug and the MegaSquirt does all of the ignition function.

- There are many other ways of doing it, limited only by how mad people want to be. Check www.msefi.com or http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/index.html for info.

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Guest diesel_jim

For the uninitiated, like what I iz.....

What's the benefit from these kits? is it to "EFI" a non efi engine? or to replace the ECU on an already EFI'd one?

because the current ECU is toasted or for performance upgrades?

Can the megasquirts be plugged into a normal PC/laptop to adjust power settings?

cheers B)

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i got a question

if you have a V3 board will it drive banked injection coils?

ie do i still need the EDIS 8 controller i have in my garage? Is the VB291 chip part of the V3 board as standard?

there aren't really any benefits to us non-performance types for MS-II over original MS isd there? for a well tuned but fairly standard RV8 8x8 tables are more than enough aren't they- (anyway doesn't ms'n'extra have 12x12 tables in it?)

does the Megaview work with MS-II- i have asked on the user grops but no-one seems to be quite sure!

where is MS and IAT at the mo?

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What's the benefit from these kits? is it to "EFI" a non efi engine? or to replace the ECU on an already EFI'd one?

because the current ECU is toasted or for performance upgrades?

Can the megasquirts be plugged into a normal PC/laptop to adjust power settings?

unless FF says otherwise, it is all off the above.

basically DIY electronic ignition with option of fuel injection. you can replace points which are normally the weak part of the igniton plus you can cutomise the igntion advance for optimum performance be it power ecomnomy or whatever.

as for toasted efi - these are very pricey - usually one would look for s/h unit but if you cannot find one, then MS would be the way - not as straighforward as a manufacturer's replacement.

the current fad in the kit car world is using MS to control bike throttle bodies - a very cost effective way of gaining more oompf.

There is monitoring and tuning software to allows you to tune the fuelling and ignition.

Oh, by the wya Fridgey - that is very clear write up. ;)

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02 Has it right - you can tune everything to whatever you want, with the "extra" code you get toys galore to play with.

On features/price an equivalent commercial unit (Emerald etc.) would be about £1200 and then they still get you for special bits like connectors/sensors, software, etc. MS is open source so anyone can write software, the tuning software is free to download and versions are out there for Linux, Mac and several PDA's. All the documentation, circuit diagrams etc. are online free too.

i got a question

if you have a V3 board will it drive banked injection coils?

ie do i still need the EDIS 8 controller i have in my garage? Is the VB291 chip part of the V3 board as standard?

there aren't really any benefits to us non-performance types for MS-II over original MS isd there? for a well tuned but fairly standard RV8 8x8 tables are more than enough aren't they- (anyway doesn't ms'n'extra have 12x12 tables in it?)

does the Megaview work with MS-II- i have asked on the user grops but no-one seems to be quite sure!

where is MS and IAT at the mo?

Any board will drive banked injection, this is the default setting as there are only two injector drivers as standard. Sequential is a real PITA but these days I think people have done it, if you fit ignition decoder wheel then it gets so much easier. There's no great benefit to going sequential.

If you mean banked ignition coils then yes, the easiest way to do most ignition is wasted-spark as you only need one driver chip per two cylinders. There is one VB921 in a standard V3 ECU, adding more would need modification which is not difficult, you'd need three extra for a V8.

Personally I'd stick with the EDIS8 if you already have it, Ford spent £12m developing it and it's really pretty good, it also cuts down on modding the ECU and should the worst happen it has a limp-home if communication is lost with the ECU.

8x8 Tables are more than enough, yes, but there's always someone who asks for 12x12 or bigger because they think they need it so it was added to keep people quiet I think :D the MS interpolates between points on the map anyway so it's not as crude as (uneducated) people may think :P

The benefits to the MS-II are the extra room/power for all sorts of extra features that can be important on other more "performance" vehicles - finer injector pulse width, more inputs/outputs, CAN bus for adding external stuff (daisy chain two ECU's and run parallel processing, one for each bank for example!).

Current MegaView does not work with anything other than normal MS running the standard code as I understand it, however I think a new version is in the pipeline.

MS and IAT - what do you mean? The MS is tucked under the seat and the IAT is mounted in the air intake :ph34r:

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Does anyone have a basic map, or guidelines that will suit a V8 3.5 carb?

Just so i have somewhere to start from.

I will also be switching between 2 maps for Petrol / LPG. Anyone have any map or advice for the LPG settings also?

Cheers

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There are some MegaSquirt threads in the tech archive that have links to maps, wiring diagrams etc.:

This is probably the most useful one

Also check out Dan's site, he has the wiring diagram and his current fuel map online to download:

www.getmuddy.co.uk click on Megasquirt logo on the right hand side, techy stuff is on the 2nd page.

Dan's current MegaSquirt map

MegaSquirt_RV8_Wiring.gif

For an ignition map, try Nige (Hybrid_From_Hell).

As for LPG - it depends on what LPG injectores you're using, if they're the same flow (or equivalent flow) to the Rover ones then life is easy, otherwise you may have to juggle some settings. It really depends how you want it all to work and what the ECU can do, I'm not 100% on what the current software will do - every time I think "that might be tricky" Bill tells me it'll just do it no problem :)

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Hi, thnks for the reply Fridge

I should have been a bit more specific...

I'm going ti use a MegaJolt not Squirt.

I have no injector since it is NA twin SU carbs.

For the LPG i know in general that it needs about a 12 degree advance over petrol because of the higher octane & slower burning. But i dont know what that translates as accross a full map.

Anyone out there with MJ on LPG?

I will contact HfH (in fact it was his article finally convinced me to do this).

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Hi, thnks for the reply Fridge

I should have been a bit more specific...

I'm going ti use a MegaJolt not Squirt.

I have no injector since it is NA twin SU carbs.

For the LPG i know in general that it needs about a 12 degree advance over petrol because of the higher octane & slower burning. But i dont know what that translates as accross a full map.

Anyone out there with MJ on LPG?

I will contact HfH (in fact it was his article finally convinced me to do this).

I've got Megasquirt doing ignition (no fuelling as yet) for petrol/LPG - I got the table switching input wrong so I'm running a compromise map at the moment :rolleyes: but did do a bit of tuning (just on the road, by 'feel') for petrol and LPG separately, so I could look some maps out for you. They aren't polished final articles, and aren't going to be any time soon as I've taken the Range Rover off the road, but they'd get you up and running. I think my last known good LPG map had higher advance across the rev range, but my experiments suggest that you probably only want lots of extra advance at the bottom of the map, decreasing as revs rise - haven't installed the new maps to test this properly yet. I haven't found any decent resources for ignition tuning on LPG, so it's mostly down to trial and error - feed back your findings and hopefully we can put something together to help other people get started in the future.

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Everyone should fit MS immediatly!

It's the best mod I've done yet (save perhaps for a certain handbrake thingy). I get substantially more power, better economy, the engine runs cooler and it has no seals to dry out if you run on LPG for prolonged periods.

It's just fab!

Out of interest, how does one implement the dial maps on the V2.2 board? I fancy haing a "burn fuel for england" map as well as a "tree hugger" one. I'm enjoying the former at the moment - but my overdraft is saying different!

Si

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Out of interest, how does one implement the dial maps on the V2.2 board? I fancy haing a "burn fuel for england" map as well as a "tree hugger" one. I'm enjoying the former at the moment - but my overdraft is saying different!

Dual maps is slightly different - I think what you're after is switchable maps. This is what I would have if my electronics was any good :rolleyes:

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I'd say stick with the edis. Using megasquirt to control the coil packs without requires extra components soldered onto the backs of borads, atteched with flying leads etc. A horrible bodge IMHO. If they modded the board such that the driver chips were mounted properly on the PCB I'd consider it, but until then use the Edis.

I can supply an ignition map for a standard 3.5 on Carbs. HFH's is probably very odd casue of that stupid engine he's got!

Jon

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Jon - I think people usually build extra drivers onto a bit of breadboard and mount that either in-case or externally in a box, the V3 proto area makes life easier. After all, it is DIY EFI so designed for modding :D

Hoss - you should consider using a MS in spark-only and later upgrade to full EFi - I pick up complete inlet manifolds with injectors, loom, everything except air flow meter and ECU ('cos those are the bits that die) for around £10 a throw at Sodbury. All you need after that is a high pressure fuel pump and you're away.

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Hoss - you should consider using a MS in spark-only and later upgrade to full EFi - I pick up complete inlet manifolds with injectors, loom, everything except air flow meter and ECU ('cos those are the bits that die) for around £10 a throw at Sodbury. All you need after that is a high pressure fuel pump and you're away.

Well i've already ordered a MegaJolt. I did consider the MegaSquirt & EFI, but that can always be done later as a phase 2.

I'm working/living out in switzerland, so getting to sodbury is not an option really.

If any kind soul would like to get me an EFI kit & send it out, i would provide adequate compensation ;)

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Has anyone had experience of the Throttle body Injector conversion for the CD175 Stromberg ?. It seems a really cool thing to do as it almost keeps the engine looking standard

Roger W ( still building his V3 Megasquirt)

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So I have a MS........should I fit this to the LR?

Maybe this will cure my Lucas problems!!!!!!

Can you run this without the AFM "out of the box"?

Yes, yes and yes :)

I think the extra codebase does have the ability to use a mass airflow meter, but the standard Megasquirt configuration is to use mass air pressure (work it out from inlet pressure and air temperature - plus I guess capacity and revs?). Sounds less accurate but by all accounts works just fine.

It does, of course, depend exactly what the current problem is whether this solves it, but if you fit EDIS ignition at the same time (something you very definitely won't regret) then you've removed most of the existing system from the equation.

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So I have a MS........should I fit this to the LR?

Maybe this will cure my Lucas problems!!!!!!

Can you run this without the AFM "out of the box"?

What Geoff said - yes yes yes! :D

MS uses the MAP sensor which is the other way of doing it to what Lucas use. There are swings and roundabouts to both methods but MAP is actually better IMHO for being bumped about in a dirty old LR. The sensor is mounted in the ECU (can be unsoldered and mounted remotely if you really want).

Compare MAF and MAP.

MS can be made to work with MAF sensors, some really tweaked stuff uses them because they have no steady vacuum signal.

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Phil,

I have a couple ready made spare but can make to whatever spec you want, here are the spares:

long_tail.jpg

short_tail.jpg

£30 posted for the short ~30cm one (which is probably all you need), £35 for the long ~1m one - they are high grade connectors and solid metal backshells, the wiring colours match the diagram further up the thread. I can also supply the RS bead thermistors at cost at the same time, I think they're a whopping £1.28 + VAT and replace the IAT sensor you lose when you ditch the Lucas AFM.

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FridgeFreezer,

Thanks for the reply, I was thinking of either mounting the ECU on the bulkhead behind the drivers seat or maybe in the cubby box. Which length tail do you think I will need. My vehicle is a 110 3 door.

Thanks Phil Watson

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Depends how far you can stretch the stock RR EFi loom really, they're pretty generous and you may get away with the short one depending how you route the wires. Best bet is to sit the inlet manifold in the engine bay and feed the ECU plug to where you want it, see if it reaches or not. I can make a tail whatever length you want. I can make a whole new loom but that will cost you a bit more than £30 :rolleyes:

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