King of the Valleys 2012

[najw]

Neil, can you PM me an address to send payment to. If you didn't click the paypal link when initially expressing interest (as in my case) it is impossible to find this information again short of filling in another application form!

[najw]

Mark, your driver has paid!

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Blimey.. never expected that! Ah well, miracles will never cease!

[mark awdc scrut]

hi chaps i no some of you are moaning about the rules and want to knock the awdc scruts down a peg or two , we dont makes the rules thats the msa's doings not us , they do read all the web sites and have been in contact , they have asked us now if we would like a team in to messure and weigh all your cars which does take a long time which means it will not be completed before the start hence some cars wont go out , i dont want this as i want you all out there to have a good time so please read the rules and dont put stuff on web sites about us or it may be your car they get you to strp down in front of them if they turn up on the day , as you all no you have a msa licence and they can take that away from you for misconduct which includes things on web sites so please can i have just one event that i dont have any problems with and every one enjoys them self , looking forward to a new and good event for the 2012 season

[treebloke]

Mark

After competing in Howling Wolf and XL is anything likely to be significantly different for KoV ?.

Bob

[mr whippy]

mud flaps i think bob, but if your simex rub your front radius arms or any part of the body, chassis or suspension, (even though in the regs it quite clearly says they should not) im sure it will be alright they never seem to pick anyone up on that?

[saley]

Mr Whippy

You seem to do to much thinking and not enought reading,read the regs and you will see you just need mudguards 120 degree cover which Bob will already have if hes competed under the AWDC before

Put your name up then the MSA can pickup on you and not just your **** stirring remarks.

[mr whippy]

5. SUSPENSION

(b) Suspension movement must be controlled to avoid fouling of wheels and tyres on chassis or bodywork.

7. STEERING See MSA blue book section(P)58.4.2 and 3

(b) have steering movement controlled to avoid fouling of wheels and tyres on chassis or bodywork.

sorry saley, didint mean to offend, i was under the impression that the above was part of the tech regs for this event. or am i wrong?

[saley]

Didn't offend me, and I was referring to your comment (mud flaps I think Bob)

9.2

f. Must be equipped on all wheels with mudguards which present no sharp edges and cover the full width of the tyre around an arc of 120 degrees. This must be achieved with a continuous surface of rigid material uninterrupted by any gaps, holes, slots or vents. It must extend forward ahead of the axle line and extend downward behind the wheel to the centre line of the rear axle.

[mr whippy]

ok, mudguards, mudflaps, pretty much the same thing. ive seen trucks competing in howling wolf with just a tray back, which if you were to include the tub, you would have a mud guard of 90 degrees hence the need for "flaps" at the back to fall in line with the regs.

ive seen many trucks time and time again compete with the same faults ( tyres fouling radius arms ) but i bet they will be allowed to compete in the kov. but no mud guards means you will not be allowed to compete, or so ive been told.

if the awdc or msa are happy to do this then thats fine, but i feel if you want to write rules you must stick to them.

going back to the reg 9.2 that you have pasted,

This must be achieved with a continuous surface of rigid material uninterrupted by any gaps, holes, slots or vents. It must extend forward ahead of the axle line and extend downward behind the wheel to the centre line of the rear axle.

if a standard 90 tub is being used with a standard cross member (full width) then a mud flap down the back ( like you get on a brand new road going 90 ) is not going to be good enough as its not a continuous surface,, some sort of plastic liner is required to create the continuous 120 degree arc ???? it just seems a bit ott, dont you think?

[saley]

ok, mudguards, mudflaps, pretty much the same thing. ive seen trucks competing in howling wolf with just a tray back, which if you were to include the tub, you would have a mud guard of 90 degrees hence the need for "flaps" at the back to fall in line with the regs.

ive seen many trucks time and time again compete with the same faults ( tyres fouling radius arms ) but i bet they will be allowed to compete in the kov. but no mud guards means you will not be allowed to compete, or so ive been told.

if the awdc or msa are happy to do this then thats fine, but i feel if you want to write rules you must stick to them.

going back to the reg 9.2 that you have pasted,

This must be achieved with a continuous surface of rigid material uninterrupted by any gaps, holes, slots or vents. It must extend forward ahead of the axle line and extend downward behind the wheel to the centre line of the rear axle.

if a standard 90 tub is being used with a standard cross member (full width) then a mud flap down the back ( like you get on a brand new road going 90 ) is not going to be good enough as its not a continuous surface,, some sort of plastic liner is required to create the continuous 120 degree arc ???? it just seems a bit ott, dont you think?

Once again you need to read the relevant regs, you are quoting the bluebook not the KOV technical regs for this event

[mr whippy]

ok where are they then??

[saley]

ok where are they then??

http://awdc.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=194&Itemid=106

[mr whippy]

ok ive read through the regs from your link and this is part of what ive found.

9.5 Suspension

a. Must be fitted with sprung suspension between the wheels and chassis unless originally manufactured otherwise. no problem there.

b. Suspension and steering movement must be controlled to avoid fouling of wheels and tyres on chassis and bodywork.???

9.7 Steering

a. Must have a full circumference full diameter steering wheel unless originally manufactured otherwise. should not be a problem

b. Have steering movement controlled to prevent fouling of wheels and tyres on chassis and bodywork.????

ok well these refer to the points i made, and like i said ive seen plenty compete when this rule is in place. these are in the tech regs for the KOV but i suspect some trucks will not be pulled up on it, if they are allowed to run, i feel its only fair that other truck should be able to run with other discrepancys too.

sh!t stirring or not, these are the regs so i trust they will not be bent for anyone.

[Nobbymogs]

FFS here we go again.. if your that concerned with the rules why not contact the organiser or one of the scrutineers rather than quote the MSA bible to us all

[kellyv8]

ive traybacked my 90 will i need an sva to compete at the kov

[markyb]

i dont suspect your get an answer on that sva question, but tray backing doesnt alter chassis does it otherwise 90% of the challenge trucks wouldnt be able to compete in competitions requiring a road legal truck. SVA/IVA is a big familiy size can of worms thats best left unopened under the competition forum :-) just my view on it anyway

[landroversforever]

ive traybacked my 90 will i need an sva to compete at the kov

[moose]

ive traybacked my 90 will i need an sva to compete at the kov

Your truck will need to meet the regs for this comp

being tax'ed, mot'ed, sva'ed etc.. dosen't appear in the regs as posted above.

But if you get to worried i can enter in your place if needed

[kellyv8]

i dont suspect your get an answer on that sva question, but tray backing doesnt alter chassis does it otherwise 90% of the challenge trucks wouldnt be able to compete in competitions requiring a road legal truck. SVA/IVA is a big familiy size can of worms thats best left unopened under the competition forum :-) just my view on it anyway

oh right sorry for upsetting the applecart, totally understand what everyone is saying its one of ''those'' rules that get over looked to apease the masses. i wont tell a soul my lips are sealed, is there any others i should know about so i dont stick my foot in it again

[Daan]

i dont suspect your get an answer on that sva question, but tray backing doesnt alter chassis does it otherwise 90% of the challenge trucks wouldnt be able to compete in competitions requiring a road legal truck. SVA/IVA is a big familiy size can of worms thats best left unopened under the competition forum :-) just my view on it anyway

markyb, you're quite correct, most competition trucks are trailered so dont have to be road legal ( in the official sence). But the organiser usually requires MOT when they mention road legal, and that is enough. You are also correct that the SVA is not a subject for the competition forum.

Daan

[mark awdc scrut]

ok ive read through the regs from your link and this is part of what ive found.

9.5 Suspension

a. Must be fitted with sprung suspension between the wheels and chassis unless originally manufactured otherwise. no problem there.

b. Suspension and steering movement must be controlled to avoid fouling of wheels and tyres on chassis and bodywork.???

9.7 Steering

a. Must have a full circumference full diameter steering wheel unless originally manufactured otherwise. should not be a problem

b. Have steering movement controlled to prevent fouling of wheels and tyres on chassis and bodywork.????

ok well these refer to the points i made, and like i said ive seen plenty compete when this rule is in place. these are in the tech regs for the KOV but i suspect some trucks will not be pulled up on it, if they are allowed to run, i feel its only fair that other truck should be able to run with other discrepancys too.

sh!t stirring or not, these are the regs so i trust they will not be bent for anyone.

hi its mark as most of you no i have never stopped any one from playing i am an ex racer so i no what its like . you have to have a really serious problem before i stop any one but you all must have mud guards and mud flaps as per regs as the msa has clamped down hard on this due to the amount of insurance claims from flying stones and rocks as long as you have these and roll cage is ok and the all the other stuff it will be ok please phone me or my dad vic if any of you are worried we are always here to help 02392 664637 wheels hitting body well how do you turn a landy then if they dont

[mark awdc scrut]

Your truck will need to meet the regs for this comp

being tax'ed, mot'ed, sva'ed etc.. dosen't appear in the regs as posted above.

But if you get to worried i can enter in your place if needed

hi mate its mark you do not need any of that mot , tax and sva is not required please phone me or my dad vic if any one is worried we are here to help 02392 664637 and we want every that has entered to start the day

[mr whippy]

hi its mark as most of you no i have never stopped any one from playing i am an ex racer so i no what its like . you have to have a really serious problem before i stop any one but you all must have mud guards and mud flaps as per regs as the msa has clamped down hard on this due to the amount of insurance claims from flying stones and rocks as long as you have these and roll cage is ok and the all the other stuff it will be ok please phone me or my dad vic if any of you are worried we are always here to help 02392 664637 wheels hitting body well how do you turn a landy then if they dont

thats excellent news mark for all the landy owners who's tyres foul there bodywork.

it just means that i and others have wasted lots of time and money preparing our trucks

to comply with regs that mean nothing. i for one have spent hours and hours repairing a

fault to be able to compete, just to see others competing with the same fault.

so many drivers are put off the awdc because of the huge list of challenge regs and now

your saying just put mudguards on and you will be fine, please just create a sensible set

of regs that work and stick to them, then everyone will know where they stand

[najw]

I have refrained from contributing to this thread for the last week as quite frankly I don't see where it is heading and was under the assumption that some of the posts were simply taking the mickey

Furthermore unless I am very much mistaken the chief protagonist in this debate has not even entered the King of the Valleys.

To clarify, there are a set of Technical and Event Regulations for this event (not Challenge regs as this isn't a Challenge event) which each entrant signs to say they agree with and will comply with when they submit their entry. Equally when a car is presented for scrutineering at the event it is on the understanding that the competitor believes it complies with the Technical Regulations.

It is therefore at the Scrutineers and Organisers discretion whether a vehicle found not to comply with the Technical Regulations takes part in the event at all and, if they do, it could be with limited rights - ie: no placing or prizes.

Should a competitor (and by that I mean an entrant who has signed on and successfully passed scrutiny themselves at the event) believes that another competitor does not comply with the necessary regulations then there is a clearly defined protest procedure in place in the MSA Blue Book which involves a written protest and protest fee.

Finally I would add that if anyone who has currently entered does not feel that they will be able to comply with the Regulations or wishes to withdraw their entry for any other reason then they have until 31st January to notify me and receive a full refund of their deposit. In doing so they will allow another member of the silent majority to take their place on the entry list.