FridgeFreezer Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Learn to drive the vehicle in standard form first as it's pretty damned impressive, then tweak your suspension, then when you reach the limit of that fit a locker Edit: With an emphasis on: Learn to drive the vehicle in standard form first as it's pretty damned impressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 On a stock vehicle I would fit a locker first. Especially as does 'kits' for Defenders, and other coilers, focus on huge flex from the rear axle alone which is carp. I'd rather have standard suspenion with a locker than a hugely unbalanced suspension setup. But as a whole, I'd take a well balanced (front to rear, up and down travel) suspension with a lot of overall articulation and dual lockers anyday! Oh wait... that's what I've got . And it's going to get even better very soon! Leafs rock!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badger Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 True what he said ^^^, I had a standard truck, it was great, but then I decide to build my own, so I went with dual LSD KAM lockers, and a gwen lewis long travel kit. the combination is perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Edit: With an emphasis on: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 series 3, standard parabolics, open diffs, variable geometry right foot. works nearly every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandancer73 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Many thanks to all for the information / thoughts. I would still consider myself as a novice off roader, and I'm sure more practice will improve that. I will consider a locker, any recomendations??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardos Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Ashcroft's http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19MART82 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Many thanks to all for the information / thoughts. I would still consider myself as a novice off roader, and I'm sure more practice will improve that. I will consider a locker, any recomendations??? just bear in mind that with a locker you would be best upgradeing the shafts/cv's etc as lockers put great strain on these,which unfortunatly would = more expense,before you part with your cash why dont you pop along to a couple of local p&p's and have practise in your truck,get a feel for it and learn what it is capable of,also watch some of the other trucks that have got suspension ugrades or lockers and then you could see for yourself what upgrades would be best for what you plan to do with your truck and what would best suit your wallet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 and id get the diff pegged by nige on here if youre a bit heavy on the right foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badger Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Or fit the entire axle with all KAM products, they do the whole lot, locker, CVs, half shafts that a designed to break at a certain point so they don't mess up your diff, hubs. Changing a broken half shaft takes about 5 mins now (not that I have ever broken on yet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Nooooo, not KAM I've got KAM diffs front and back. Best to go Ashcroft. KAM have fibbed to me too much. Some people were adamant that the lockers were fine with standard 24 spline shafts. I would expect that if your not being daft and driving like a mad man, you'ld be fine. If you are beeing daft, (like me) it's a big wodge of cash for all the axel internals. But you can back out of a ditch on full lock and not worry. Landy's should have had lockers from the begining! As for the suspention, we're still happily winch challenging with standard shocks. It makes it less likely to roll over. And you don't have to be on full articulation to break drive on one wheel. You could be on the flat with two wheels in a wet bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badger Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Fair cop gov, not had experience with any Ashcroft product, but not needed too "yet", I guess I have not gone mad enough yet. Well I guess if your lockers have not broken yet then I guess they are ok still?, The thing I prefer with the KAM is the fact that it is electric, no compressed air needed, one less system to use. Even though I have nothing against using a compressed air system, I just thought it was simpler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardos Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 just bear in mind that with a locker you would be best upgradeing the shafts/cv's etc as lockers put great strain on these,which unfortunatly would = more expense,before you part with your cash why dont you pop along to a couple of local p&p's and have practise in your truck,get a feel for it and learn what it is capable of,also watch some of the other trucks that have got suspension ugrades or lockers and then you could see for yourself what upgrades would be best for what you plan to do with your truck and what would best suit your wallet In some circumstances a locker will put less load on the shafts/cv's than a standard diff. On a standard diff if you loose traction on a wheel when it bounces in the air, it will spin up faster and there will be a greater shock load when it lands and gets grip than if the axle was locked with a locker because the other wheel with traction would prevent it from spinning up so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 "The thing I prefer with the KAM is the fact that it is electric," Thats exactly why I went with them. And its a proper big external dog clutch that you can see. And a warning micro switch in the diff to show stuffs moved. I'd say ashcroft shafts and KAM diffs were a good mix, but KAM's customer service has been absolutely terrible. So Ashcroft for me next time There is one thing with the KAM diff I'm not convinced about, and thats the contact area on the half shaft. To use standard shafts they put in a quill-shaft, which shares the half shaft spline with the sun gear. That leaves about 11mm of contact leangth on ordinary open diff operation. Now if you said an open diff put torque 50% either way and you only needed half the area I would say that was fair. And there are plenty of gearbox gears where the contact length is less than the diameter, but it just looks hinkey? If KAM got their act together they would do a lot better. It's got a strong diff carrier and the pan cover is tough. What I really want is a multi clutch plate diff lock like proper machines have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19MART82 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 In some circumstances a locker will put less load on the shafts/cv's than a standard diff. On a standard diff if you loose traction on a wheel when it bounces in the air, it will spin up faster and there will be a greater shock load when it lands and gets grip than if the axle was locked with a locker because the other wheel with traction would prevent it from spinning up so much. i agree with that but also on the other hand when say youve got one wheel pushed up into the arch and all the weights on that side it will put great strain on the halfshafts,with open diffs the drive would go to the opposite side which would spin up as you say as the drive will allways follow the path of least resistence,but with a locker you will still have drive on the wheel pushed up into the arch would could possibly have the mojority of the weight on it,i dont disagree you could run standard shafts and for how much they cost, how readily available they are and how easy they are to swap it wouldnt hurt to keep a couple of spares in the l/r,but you would definatly get the full potential out a locker with upgraded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badger Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 i guess with all of this, you need to be aware of where the fail point is, in the axles, the last thing you want is it in the diff. I totally agree with you on KAM being a bit useless, however I have had really good help from them (well, two of there employees anyway) as the owner is a bit dizzy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Or fit the entire axle with all KAM products, they do the whole lot, locker, CVs, half shafts that a designed to break at a certain point so they don't mess up your diff, hubs. Changing a broken half shaft takes about 5 mins now (not that I have ever broken on yet) Honestly, forget Kam. I run their shafts front and back. Yes i don't have light right foot but i break a couple stub shafts each outing. I've broken 2 aerospace shafts in the last year and each time, after 17 phone call attempts and 5 emails...you might get an answer.... Then in another 3 weeks you might be lucky to get a replacement - to which they phone you and ask for payment details, then you have to remind them that it's a warrenty claim. Go ashcroft ! I've only had good dealings with them G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19MART82 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I run kam locker in my rear axle and to be fair i cant fault it (not very keen on the shafts though),trouble is ive been trying for 3 months now to buy another kam for the front axle and im not haveing no luck at all which has now got me thinking what happens if i need spares at some point,i know kam have merged with allmakes so things are still getting sorted at min thats why ive gave them the benefit of the doubt and hung on but im seriously thinking of buying one of the ashcroft air lockers for the front now,the service from ashcroft is faultless,after i twisted my kam shafts i bought ashcroft shafts & cv's and they were delivered next day,i also bought some second hand cv's which i sent in to be reworked and they were turned round and delivered back to me within 3 days of me posting them,these were my kam shafts (heavy duty not aerospace) after 1 outing running 33" fedima's,ive sent an email off to kam but still not had a reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 i guess with all of this, you need to be aware of where the fail point is, in the axles, the last thing you want is it in the diff. I totally agree with you on KAM being a bit useless, however I have had really good help from them (well, two of there employees FORMER EMPLOYEES anyway) as the owner is a bit dizzy. Fixed for you Badger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badger Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Ah, this explains why the service has dropped considerable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandancer73 Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 Well, it looks like I will be contacting Ashcroft once rebuilt. Thanks for all your advice, excellent discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Surely the main message should be get out there and get to know your vehicle! You don't need anything more than a standard LR for greenlaning . As for lockers - I have a new ashcroft waiting to be used (truck currently broken ) and it is a great bit of engineering and I would buy another in a shot! Standard VS. upgraded shafts... stick with the standard ones to start with and then upgrade if you're breaking them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Standard VS. upgraded shafts... stick with the standard ones to start with and then upgrade if you're breaking them! Yep, I'm still on stock shafts, carry two spares all the time, but not needed them yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I don't understand this fascination for carrying spares instead of putting proper shafts in there from the get-go .. Surely you don't enjoy having to change shafts, or worse, having to take out the diff in order to get the broken bit out that seems to be just a bit too stuck to get out with any clever tools, underneath a mud covered vehicle... I much more enjoy driving around, having fun and not having to worry about breaking stuff.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 But depending on your driving style you may never break a standard shaft?! Anyway, I know my wallet certainly can't afford to buy the best of everything that I might break! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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