Painting: step by step - your advice

[Maverik]

Ratty - just checked out colouwelduk, they seem a decent alternative, thanks for the refrence.

C18RCH - some good advice, perticulalry with regard to the volume of stuff you've been through.

Question - I'm guessing you need Thinners that are matched to the paint you are using, ok but - whats the difference between a standard thinner and a high gloss thinner and base coat thinners??

I think I'm going to go down the Cellulose route, in which case I just have to make sure my primers are "cellulose" compatible.

Whats the difference between a basecoat and a topcoat, on the colourwelduk website there is £100 difference in price...

[C18RCH]

Forgot tak cloths and mixing pots off my list too.

Mixing stick - old chisel

[Ratty43]

Polishing and rubbing down:

I rub down the finished primer with 600 or 800 wet and dry, your looking for a completely Matt finish when dry. Rub the paper on a bar of soap after each rinse, it stops it clogging and will save you a small fortune in wet and dry. Leaving the paint (gloss and primer) for 24 hours is more than enough for cellulose. Start rubbing the gloss down with 800 then move onto 1200 once it's flat. Having rubbed down the primer you'll have got a feel for when it's flat as the wet and dry stops dragging.

Polishing:

Start with an aggressive compound (I use T-cut although the ammonia in it is supposed to e ba for the paint, never caused me any trouble) avoid Halfords rubbing compound, it's courser than 1200 paper. Once the paint has taken a shine (normally two goes with T-cut) move onto a decent polish. You don't need anything special just use what you normally would on the car. After that give it a good feel coats of wax, again go with what you'll be using immune future be it turtle wax or meguiars etc.

Thinners:

Use standard for primer and washing the equipment, it isn't pure enough for top gloss. For the top gloss use a gloss thinners, it's higher grade and gives better flow characteristics.

Paint:

You want a proper car primer, a lot of what is out there is industrial paint, I've never used it but I suspect it's what caused the atomisation problems in the previous post.

Clear and basecoat, haven't a clue as far as cellulose goes, you want a straight top gloss like this on eBay: 180470788995

[Ratty43]

On other point, don't b shy on rubbing down the primer, it's a lot cheaper and less galling to go through the primer than leave it rough and end up going through the top coat.

[Ratty43]

Mav, I've just had a look on their website, assuming we're looking at the same product the basecoat at £100 extra is part of the 2k stuff nothing to do with cellulose. When buying cellulose you'll find eBay is your friend as it's become a niche product in the bodyshop world. I would stick to cellulose for all stages if you're going to use it for the top gloss as it's a highly aggressive solvent. The only aside to that is if you leave the sound pain on the vehicle, do a test patch and if the cellulose reacts with the old paint you'll need to apply a barrier primer.

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Thank you very much Ratty for your top tips. Appreciated

Mark

[Retroanaconda]

Do let us know how you get on. A respray for my 90 is on my list of things to do, partly because it's a bit tatty but also as a practice project before doing the 110 when it goes back together.

I was going to go down the HVLP route.

[Ratty43]

No worries. A lot of people criticise cellulose on here and elsewhere for it's faults but they're generally talking from a professional viewpoint. With all the right equipment there are better alternatives. But for a hobbyist I don't think anything comes close to cellulose; largely because almost any faults can be corrected with wet and dry plus a bit of hard work.

[FridgeFreezer]

Found it, this is an excellent site for painting vehicles, I'm tempted to have a crack with the rollers myself as this guys results are amazing:

http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk/

[C18RCH]

High gloss is more expensive but should be used on the final coats. Standard and base thinners are lower grade for primer coats and cleaning.

I went with HVLP, have no experience with anything else but supposedly saves on paint due to reduced blow back. Still got a fair bit even with HVLP, possibly because of it being a cheaper gun.

Just added some pics of mine so far:

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=70980&st=40&gopid=644465&

[db950]

Seems like cellulose may be your best bet as corrections can done after last coat.

As I said previously I don't get on with as I can not get a good enough gloss on it by just leaving it after the last coat.

I restore alot of vintage tractors and flatting the framework/chassis back after spraying is not an option, far to many nooks and crannies!!

This is why I go for synthetic as if done right you get a perfect gloss finish without any extra work.

I joined this forum as I have bought a 1989 110sw and doing a full restoration on, just got chassis back from galvanisers and busy fitting the refurb axles now.

I will be painting it in 2k though as using metallic base coat and lacquer.

Hope you get on okay

Regards

[Maverik]

I've priced up what I think i need and will be ordering the bits this week... for peoples interest:

Spray gun 85

Inline water trap 6

Air blow gun 4.99

Body filler 10.6

Stopper (p38 x 3) 9.5

Orbital sander 150mm disc pad size 50

Wet and dry 80/180/240/400 2.99

120 2.95

600 2.95

1200 2.95

Scotch pads 2.99

Tack cloth x 20 6.7

Masking tape x 2 6.3

Masking paper 29

Mixing pots 4.45

Painters suit 9.99

Spreader 2.99

Mask 20.25

Etch primer 1ltr 15.5

High build primer 10ltr 99

Colour coat (body) 10 ltr 135

Colour coat (roof)

Thinners Standard 10ltr 2 9

Thinners High gloss. 5ltr 29.9

Panel wipe 5 ltr 1 8.9

Total (punds) 587.9

Mav

[Les Henson]

To bring up the shine use 1200 grit wet/dry with soapy water (washing up liquid). Rinse off and dry, then T-cut. You can then use car wax afterwards to protect the finish.

Les.

[Maverik]

Is it worth doing a cellulose lacquer coat to finish off?

[Les Henson]

You can apply laquer, but not on a dead shiny finish. I would key with 1200 grit wet/dry, then spray. If the finish delaminates, then it'll look awful and will be a lot of work to put right.

Les.

[Happyoldgit]

I usually pipe up on threads like these and say something about taking a look at Farecla range of finishing products and compounds which are far better than T Cut.

[Exmoor Beast]

ahem, Dulux.

Its amazing how good a finish you can get with just a decent 2" brush and a warm day. Slap plenty of decent polish on afterwards and nobody knows you only spent £8 on the 're-spray'

Will

[Les Henson]

Well that doesn't look like a 'respray' at all Will More like 'I rolled it in some Sandtex red' that had some large rocks in it

Les.

[Maverik]

Well that doesn't look like a 'respray' at all Will More like 'I rolled it in some Sandtex red' that had some large rocks in it

Les.

HAHAHAHA - i think i would agree...

[Bingy]

You can get a nylon strip wheel which is supposed to be good for removing paint.

http://www.ebay.co.u...#ht_2459wt_1185

I havent used one but there is a video on the advert and it looks a damn site easier than rubbing down by hand. These dont seem to clog up like sand paper. Maybe worth a go??

Dont mix 1 pack primer with 2 pack paints. I didnt know any different. I rubbed my bulkhead down to bare metal, etch primed, high build primed, rimini red basecoat and finally laquer. Unfortunateley the high build primer was 1 pack and the colour/laquer were 2 pack. The colour has eaten into the primer and softened it. After a week you can put your fingernbail all the way through the paint and scratch it off, because of the primer.

Luckily i only did my bulkhead. It needs completely stripping back down and re spraying.Just wish i started with the bonnet or the truck cab roof, something a bit easier/ more manageable. I also stone chipped the footwells inside and out, and panel sealed the edges with silkaflex. If thats any help.

[NickMc]

The way I normally do it is take any corrosion back with 80 grit or anywhere you intent to apply filler. Then I'd rub the whole thing back with 240 grit then 400 grit. Red scotchbrite any good existing paint to a flat/Matt finish.

Use the flat of your hand to feel for any dents/high spots/low spots take back to bare metal and apply the filler. Try and knock any big dents out and use as little filler as possible. You may need to apply top stop to any pin holes.

Etch prime any bare metal .

Primer filler if you need it and rub it back with 400 grit.

The more time you spend on the prep the better finish you'll get. The same goes for masking take your time and you'll reap the rewards in the end.

Something like a Devilbiss starting line gun will make a world of difference and cost around £60

I like to use two pack as its fairly forgiving and isn't too dear.

Avoid plastic sheeting for a booth as static attracts dust then over night or when you start spraying it'll all fall back down on your lovely new paint.

If your spraying outside I'd add a bit of rocket hardener to your standard you fast drying hardener and add just a splash of thinner to make it run (it'll be more forgiving and you get less runs if it's your first time)

You want to wash the car well, then blow the dust off, panel wipe then tack cloth.

I'd do a very light sticky coat first (it'll stop runs and save you a fortune in wasted paint) then do your shuts and edges making sure you get a good coverage on your shuts and gutters, then do a thicker coat over lapping each pass by around half way. Keep your gun parrellel to the panel and walk along with the gun don't swivel as you'll end up with thick and thin spots, when you get to the end of a panel feather off the trigger so you don't waste paint.

A 90 I'd be looking at about 2.5 litres of paint and a 110 maybe 3.5 litres.

Afterwards you can wet sand any dust or orange peel out with 1500-2000 grit and then something from the farcela range and a mop taking care on the curves and rivet heads that you dont burn through the paint, keep it wet and always moving.

[Maverik]

The way I normally do it is take any corrosion back with 80 grit or anywhere you intent to apply filler. Then I'd rub the whole thing back with 240 grit then 400 grit. Red scotchbrite any good existing paint to a flat/Matt finish.

Use the flat of your hand to feel for any dents/high spots/low spots take back to bare metal and apply the filler. Try and knock any big dents out and use as little filler as possible. You may need to apply top stop to any pin holes.

Etch prime any bare metal .

Primer filler if you need it and rub it back with 400 grit.

The more time you spend on the prep the better finish you'll get. The same goes for masking take your time and you'll reap the rewards in the end.

Something like a Devilbiss starting line gun will make a world of difference and cost around £60

I like to use two pack as its fairly forgiving and isn't too dear.

Avoid plastic sheeting for a booth as static attracts dust then over night or when you start spraying it'll all fall back down on your lovely new paint.

If your spraying outside I'd add a bit of rocket hardener to your standard you fast drying hardener and add just a splash of thinner to make it run (it'll be more forgiving and you get less runs if it's your first time)

You want to wash the car well, then blow the dust off, panel wipe then tack cloth.

I'd do a very light sticky coat first (it'll stop runs and save you a fortune in wasted paint) then do your shuts and edges making sure you get a good coverage on your shuts and gutters, then do a thicker coat over lapping each pass by around half way. Keep your gun parrellel to the panel and walk along with the gun don't swivel as you'll end up with thick and thin spots, when you get to the end of a panel feather off the trigger so you don't waste paint.

A 90 I'd be looking at about 2.5 litres of paint and a 110 maybe 3.5 litres.

Afterwards you can wet sand any dust or orange peel out with 1500-2000 grit and then something from the farcela range and a mop taking care on the curves and rivet heads that you dont burn through the paint, keep it wet and always moving.

Some good advice, but what are shuts and gutters? - good point about the plastic, might have to re-think my booth design!...

I've decided to take off the panels etc, so I'm painting front back, every exposed surface, when you give those paint extimates its for juts one coat? and an experienced hand?

I'll be using cellulose as uncomfortable with the toxicity of 2k.

Just bought a DeVibiss FLG5, got the rest of supplies now, juts need to get my paint.

[NickMc]

It all comes down to how good you are and the mixing ratio for the paint, if your mixing it for example 1:1 1 litre of paint will actually make two litres.

Someone above said about buying 10 litres, by the time it's mixed you might end up with 25 litres which would be a hell of a lot of money wasted!

You will be fine with two pack, a decent mask and decent ventilation as long as your not spraying 24/7.

It's a much better paint, stronger, bit cheaper, easy to apply and easy to fix defects.

I'd go for something like Delfleet paint. Forget all these online places go to the local paint factor and get it there, the price will be a lot better and you'll end up with exactly what you need.