reb78 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Brand credibility is still important. Everybody hears "Land Rover" and thinks of manly outdoor types hauling lifeboats about or winching trees with their Defenders, rather than some haw-haw prat poncing about Chelsea in shiny shoes, a pink shirt and a new RR. Same with Jeep - which one do you think of when somebody says Jeep? The Wrangler of course, or the Willys. Get rid of the brand anchor and you will eventually get rid of the brand credibility. It might be low volume and it might not make much profit, but it still sells the posh ones. I agree mainly with FF, but I hadnt considered your point above before and it does make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 How many on here would ever actually be likely to walk into a dealer and spam down £20k for a brand new Defender? I went into Harwoods in Pullborough and offered to "spam down" £30k - but was met with total disinterest. Invited to have a look round their yard myself and when I came back in a couple of mins later - the salesman had gone home! Someone else took my details - but they failed to get back to me. Once before, (1997) Gatwick Land Rover suggested to me that I was wasting their time and should look in the Friday Ad for a Defender! I went out and bough a Jeep instead out of spite. Wrote and complained to LR, but didn't get a reply. If the dealers are that interested in selling a Defender - it's not surprising they don't sell any! This kind of attitude makes me so angry. It's the snobbyness of the dealers that is killing Defender Sales. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Looking to replace my current TD5 D90, I'd really like a hardtop Defender with the TDV6 lump (or the old RR TDV8) and a lockable-centre-diff transmission with the handbrake operating on the back of the gearbox. Snatchy 4-pot bag-of-nails Transit engines just don't turn me on. I did have a D4 "Commercial" for trial recently: the excessive non-dog-resistant trim-level, E-handbrake nonsense and stupid gearshift-points even when in 'sport' mode put me totally off it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dailysleaze Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I went into Harwoods in Pullborough and offered to "spam down" £30k - but was met with total disinterest. Invited to have a look round their yard myself and when I came back in a couple of mins later - the salesman had gone home!Someone else took my details - but they failed to get back to me. Once before, (1997) Gatwick Land Rover suggested to me that I was wasting their time and should look in the Friday Ad for a Defender! I went out and bough a Jeep instead out of spite. Wrote and complained to LR, but didn't get a reply. If the dealers are that interested in selling a Defender - it's not surprising they don't sell any! This kind of attitude makes me so angry. It's the snobbyness of the dealers that is killing Defender Sales. Si My boss was telling me he recently tried to buy a new car and the dealer said he "wouldn't be able to afford it". it really Mildly miffed him off. Sure, he looks like a bit of a chav in his normal clothes but he's our Finance Director = £££. He went on a loud rant in the dealership and lost them a couple of other clients who were browsing. I can understand wanting to spend more time with the customers they perceive will make a purchase, but when they have a legitimate customer waving cash in their face, that's snobbery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 My boss was telling me he recently tried to buy a new car and the dealer said he "wouldn't be able to afford it". it really Mildly miffed him off. Sure, he looks like a bit of a chav in his normal clothes but he's our Finance Director = £££. He went on a loud rant in the dealership and lost them a couple of other clients who were browsing. I can understand wanting to spend more time with the customers they perceive will make a purchase, but when they have a legitimate customer waving cash in their face, that's snobbery. We had similar at the dealership in Welwyn Garden City. We were seriously considering a brand new 90. Once they found out we weren't interested in the Evoque, we were shunned by most in the dealership. Bought a secondhand D2 and another house in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Bought a secondhand D2 and another house in the end. as you would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Most car dealers would bite your arm off if they thought there was even the slightest chance of spending £30k. It would be more understandable if there was another sale they could of made instead - but it was almost like even the paperwork was more trouble than it was worth for a Defender (or as one of them described them, "one of those old Tractors" - we were in looking at RR's that day). Crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 as you would. The cash for the car became the deposit for a house. Which reminds me, they also lost interest when they found that we didn't want finance for the vehicle! Apparently the days of a discount for cash are gone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Sure, he looks like a bit of a chav in his normal clothes but he's our Finance Director = £££. Sounds like our FD that does, he drives a 911 The cash for the car became the deposit for a house. Which reminds me, they also lost interest when they found that we didn't want finance for the vehicle! Apparently the days of a discount for cash are gone! In my last job, one of my young colleagues went to buy a brand new 3 series, a cash sale too (he was a bit of a squirrel with money). He was one of those nerdy looking types, but he had one heck of a job getting taken seriously by the salesmen at all, never mind when he explained he didn't need finance! The 3rd dealership he went to eventually took his money for a rather smart 320 convertible. So, like has been said above - dealer snobbery loses them sales. As much as I will never buy a Jeep, I can understand Si's reasons for doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenseMaker2013 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 AC, DC..... etc. ... all these short cuts... very boring, isnt it ? :-) Its just something for insiders, but does not attract new customers, in my understanding. Nowadays DC might stand for "Digital Culture"... Remembers me little bit the legendary Citroen DS ( http://www.youtube.com/channel/HCoe8qXpIE9hY) Its really boring to see the companies using such numbers, e.g. Mazda 3/6, BMW 3/5/6/7 or Mercedes 190/200/230/280... etc. .... Ok, it seems a kind of tradition. So it is and in the head of the car engineers it probably must be. But for getting new consumers/buyers/fans its no really attractive, I think. Car names like "Mini", Polo, Golf etc. ... are much more easier to handle in human's brain. Personally I'd prefer a real cool name, not fantasy names as very often the marketing gurus create as an "artifical wording" which can be spoken in any languages around the globe. Specific companies doing such services let pay their "brains" at the prize o round about 100,000 Euros only for the name which includes a global research if this name is registrated as a trade mark already. If a car like the LR has an identity and is called "Defender" (which sounds little bit military vocabulary) it says much more as it evokes some pics in the "head cinema". The type description 90/110 or 130 only can complete the basic name to give an idea about the chassis. So to where shall LR go now ? From Defender to Offender to .... ? - It depends on the look & feel of the new design... if its more elegant, the sound of the spoken name should represent it. If it has a more "bully" look, the name can be something more roughly. Personally my opinion about the new design: It just follow a trend of the other SUVs. Take a Porsche Cayenne or BMW MX5 they all represent this "muscle game" thing. I dont like it as its fake. Big heavy weight cars for highspeed on the autobahn. Has nothing to do with Off-Road in my sense, it pretends to be offroad. For the new LR it seems it must be something with "...fender" to keep up the tradition alive. - To do little bit brainstorming: Fender itself is a guitar brand beside the name for a part of a vehicle ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_(vehicle) )... technically it is used for protecting yachts against damaging its coat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_(boating) ). So what kind of Fender, what kind of "protective habit" could be expressed ? - In our times where human race is destroying the planet by its heavily population and energy consukption it might be something like Ecofender or Envirofender. :-) (Rec.: EcoFender is already a registrated Trademark. So thats gone.) LR should do a "name giving & design competition" gobally via Internet to let vote the people about what the future might become... (Rec.: Maybe it happened as I dont follow in details the LR activities ??????) VW did this marketing with its "New Beetle" version of a 1.8 Turbo, before starting the production. They participated people around the globe via Internet and created a community environment in 1999 with the Turbonium website (long (less 4-5 years) before the term "Social media" came up). http://www.urlwire.com/news/063099.html In the WayBackMashine of Achive.org you can see the old versions of this Beetle website which existed between 1999 and 2004 http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.turbonium.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Which reminds me, they also lost interest when they found that we didn't want finance for the vehicle! Apparently the days of a discount for cash are gone! The salesdroid usually makes rather more commission out of the finance than he does on the sale of the actual vehicle. Same as when you're trying to buy a washing-machine or something eles electrical: arranging finance and/or getting the punter to pay for an "extended warranty" or "service plan" are the 2 biggest commission-generators which is why the salesdroids nag you so hard about these things. Though sometimes cash can still be king: some years back a friend witn cash in his pocket managed to get a spectacular discount on a car that was at the time in the showroom, unregistered, by 'reminding' the dealer that it was coming up to the end of the month, and that the car in question had that morning been announced as being discontinued. [i bought my 90 via a Belgian dealer who was happy to help me get the spec I wanted, would accept a cash transfer and arrange for delivery to a UK port: I also managed to save another few hundred quid by hedging Euro vs Sterling]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 AC, DC..... etc. ... all these short cuts... very boring, isnt it ? :-) Its just something for insiders, but does not attract new customers, in my understanding. Nowadays DC might stand for "Digital Culture"... I think, in this case, "DC" just stands for "Defender Concept" and wouldn't translate into the final name. Had it been "FC" ~ "Freelander Concept", many would have loved it (the concept car, not the name)! I sit (relatively) penniless (having recently bought a house) so am not currently in the market for a new Defender but, honestly, a replacement is overdue. Those new Defenders have been watered down far too much now and legislation and market forces won't bring back the simple, tough Land Rover of yore. I know Land Rover could pull something fantastic out with a bit of thought and I sit in eager anticipation to see if they have the balls to make an off-road truck, rather than an all-road car! They have the ability, for sure. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 As much as I will never buy a Jeep, I can understand Si's reasons for doing so. To be honest - the Jeep was rubbish and spent nearly a year of the three years I owned it being fixed before finally being written off by the dealer. I should have bought a Toyota or something! I replaced it with my SV90 and it never missed a beat in 120,000 miles! It came from James French - who I was overall impressed by. I did turn up with a big bag of cash though - to prove I was serious and not wasting their time! So to where shall LR go now ? From Defender to Offender to .... ? Can I suggest the "Satsuma Castanet" - seems more in keeping with Land Rover's vision of the future! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 "DS" is pronounced in French as "Déesse" (goddess), and the original DS was certainly deserving of that one. It didn't work quite the same in in France for the Toyota MR2... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 If a new Defender was £20k I would buy one, but last time I looked it was nearer £35k for the specification I wanted, which is a silly price for a utility vehicle. I appreciate that labour is the biggest issue for Defender costs, so building them in India/China/Indonesia etc. seems sensible to me. I want a "forever" car not a rapidly obsolete fashion statement, so I am willing to pay a premium for a repairable with handtools, 'simple' vehicle. I rebuilt my 1989 TD into a 200Tdi; what I will do in twenty years is anybody's guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierran.M.110 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 i would happily put down the money for a new defender, reason being a shogun is around the same price new and i happened to be driving one the other day and it was no where near as good off road as the defender. the first test drive after taking my defender out after rebuilding it the other day i am fortunate to have some quite steep slopes in my garden and it went up with out and problems and the shogun owned by a friend of mine couldnt even get onto the slope because the ground clearance was too low and looked as if the fuel tank was one of the lowest parts and had too much overhang and the shogun was swb the defender is a 110. based on this if i were in the market for a shiny new 4x4 there is only one option for me. and i am not totally against the idea of the defender being replaced just as long as its as good or better when the going gets tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dailysleaze Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Top gear last night had a feature about the Porsche 911 going through a similar situation to the Defender: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b037x8f7/Top_Gear_Series_20_Episode_5/ It won't necessarily be the end of the car because there'll be a new market of people wanting to make the new Defender like the old one(!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.