miketomcat Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The wife is considering a career change she is 36, fit, a climber and quite capable off-road. So if she were to train as a tree surgeon at sparshot college what is the likelihood of being able to get a job at the end of it or is she just dreaming. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumping jack Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 She's not dreaming, but the reality may not be as good as the dream seems It's hard work, not to bad if your doing domestic and l/a type work. Alot of dead wooding, crown raising, thinning and removals. Power line utility stuff (where most of the jobs are) can be grotty mucky work with a lot of spiking and getting rained on. Don't expect to go to sparshot and come out a master climber, earning millions, just doesn't happen, She'll have to work on the ground first dragging brash feeding the chipper etc. Best bet is to get a few days with a local firm first to see if she likes it. Also have a look at Arbtalk.com Been doing it for years, it's alright but not as glamours as some people seem to think, like all jobs some parts are fun some are not.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Incredibly hard, dirty, and fairly dangerous work. I did all the training at college but couldn't see the attraction of spending the days climbing leylandii or the like. I did forestry instead which generally meant whole-tree felling in the woods - far less hassle than trying to dismantle an ash above someone's conservatory! Money's obviously better in tree surgery though, particularly for the skilled climbers. High turnover of staff though, from what I saw anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 From having various bits of arboricultural work done around my properties, tree-surgeons seem to either be total cowboys who drive battered white non-sign-written flatbed Transits and have a flagrant disregard for things like public-liability-insurance / personal-protective-equipment but do the job quickly and offer a discount for cash, or serious-professionals who stick to the rules however niggly, require you to sign a slew of paperwork, and turn a morning's 'drop these half-dozen 40-foot ash-trees; leave anything woodstove-burnable stacked in the woodshed for me' job into a three-day one [with associated Council/Highways Agency permits for traffic-light-control on the road 'just in case any bits might fall that way']. The 'follow all the rules' types tend to turn up as a 4-man team driving a couple of relatively-new 130-inch HCPU Defenders. I guess the local authorities - who seem to be their biggest customers - must pay well. There doesn't seem to be much in the middle of these two categories of tree-surgeons. It's not a job I'd recommend - unless you can find a specialist niche doing something like managing trees covered by Tree Preservation Orders, or doing work specifically on 'heritage' fruit-orchards - where the client's paying you rather more for your knowledge than for your chainsaw-wielding ability and trade-waste licence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Seems to be a very risky job, lots of dangerous tools and climbing. Guy round our way was on TV after loosing his legs to a stump grinder and a friends dad who had 20-30 years expirience fell out of a tree and broke his back (so far he has recovered). Only benifit I could see was that female customers love hunky tree surgeons, probably not useful to you! Marc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Did a bit some years ago and not something I'd want my wife doing even if she were highly capable.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snailracer Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Might be worth giving Arbor venture a call http://www.arborventure.co.uk/ The woman that runs/owns it (Jo Hedger) went to Sparsholt and is a champion climber. If anyone is going to know what its like its her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 A mate of mine did exactly this, put himself through Sparshalt and set up on his own. It's not a great as it can seem - you can get big bucks for some jobs, but they're few and far between and there's a load of drudge work to each job in between the fun lumberjacking action. I helped him out on a few jobs and it's a lot of fetching and carrying. He also found that disposing of the leftovers was a huge pain as he had no premises or yard, no chipper, and didn't have a tipper or trailer when he started. You should speak to Nigel H too, he's set himself up as a gardener so might have some insight to how business is going. Then again, the idea of letting your other half loose with a chainsaw... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 Thanks for the replys it's all good stuff for her to ponder. She is an outside kind of person and not afraid of hard work just did want her to do the coarse then find there's no chance of a job. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmatt Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 get her to look on www.arbtalk.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 If she were to re-train as an Arboriculturalist up to Level 4 (the old Tech Cert Arb) then look at Lantra Professional Tree Inspector, there is good work there without the physical destruction that is climbing. Tree climbing is far harder on the body than rock climbing or free climbing. I retired from tree climbing at 30 - and I was fitter than the dog that beat the butchers dog to the bone. I'm still paying for it, my second reconstructive surgery on the shoulder is due soon. Although climbing now is far easier with modern concepts stolen form rock climbing. However a good H&S tree Inspector can pull in 30 - 35k a year after expenses and just do a lot of walking.... I do this as part of my job - I have about 3.5million trees on my patch and about 80k of those are veterans. I cover about 600kms a year on foot just inspecting trees - but it's steady Get her to look up QTRA and VTA as well as Claus Mattheck and Alex Shigo. The former is the god of Bio-mechanics in trees. Tree knowledge is important - I'm a Horticulturalist by trade so my plant knowledge exceeds anything an Arborist requires, so I can tell you with all honesty, Tree Ident takes time, let alone fungi ident There's good work in managing trees especially on a big scale that is not commercial forestry; and the damned things grow all the sodding time so the job gets bigger... I work for one of the worlds largest civil engineers and at the moment they have thousands of engineers world wide, but only one of me - and they need more; that need will only get greater... PM me for more info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 I'm a tree surgeon, I currently work for network rail but have done everything except forestry, including power lines, land clearance and domestics. Ill be brutally honest, there's not enough work out there. There's guys that have years of experience and are very good climbers, who are only doing two/three day weeks as a subbie. Get a job on the books somewhere, for example Glendale and they offer peanuts, I was offered a job with them a few years back and they wanted to pay me about 6 quid an hour! I've worked at electricity northwest doing the power lines, they paid 17k. The pay isn't enough for the danger of the work and the amount of graft, you definitely have to want to do it. Like anything the training is just the start, my advice is if she wants to do it, go do the chainsaw courses, the aerial rescue course and the chainsaw from a rope and harness course, that way you might have a better chance of getting work, but expect to stay firmly on the ground for a good while, and don't expect a job straight away, it took me about two years to get a full time job, and then it wasn't permanent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 From having various bits of arboricultural work done around my properties, tree-surgeons seem to either be total cowboys who drive battered white non-sign-written flatbed Transits and have a flagrant disregard for things like public-liability-insurance / personal-protective-equipment but do the job quickly and offer a discount for cash, or serious-professionals who stick to the rules however niggly, require you to sign a slew of paperwork, and turn a morning's 'drop these half-dozen 40-foot ash-trees; leave anything woodstove-burnable stacked in the woodshed for me' job into a three-day one [with associated Council/Highways Agency permits for traffic-light-control on the road 'just in case any bits might fall that way']. The 'follow all the rules' types tend to turn up as a 4-man team driving a couple of relatively-new 130-inch HCPU Defenders. I guess the local authorities - who seem to be their biggest customers - must pay well. There doesn't seem to be much in the middle of these two categories of tree-surgeons. It's not a job I'd recommend - unless you can find a specialist niche doing something like managing trees covered by Tree Preservation Orders, or doing work specifically on 'heritage' fruit-orchards - where the client's paying you rather more for your knowledge than for your chainsaw-wielding ability and trade-waste licence. With the greatest respect, and granted everyone is entitled to an opinion, but how can you advise someone not to do a job on the basis of having some tree surgeons in to do a few "various bits". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Having done this... climbing to arb The first thing she will have to deal with is in climbing the rope is there as a safety in arb you are on the rope... this wont seem like much to someone who isn't a climber lol but it can be a hard mindset to deal with Now as far as getting on ropes most arb companies are small one chipper and truck affairs with one or two guys that do rope work one of these will more than likely be the boss... because the climber is the one who dictates how fast the job runs This means her odds of walking into a climbing job are minimal, this means she is looking at a job feeding a chipper day after day... it really is a back braking job At her age I'd recommend something else look into industrial ropes... arb techniques can only be used in arb work, the rope skills and equipment used doesn't pass safety reg's for industrial rope use, coming from a climbing background she will have a good headstart gear wise and the systems This is anything from high rise window cleaning, construction rigging, rock face stabilisation etc way more technical, easier, and pay's better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted October 12, 2013 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 We greatly appreciate all the replys lots to think about and more research required. The bottom line is due to children her current job is unviable because of child care costs so she either continues at a loss just to keep the job or she spends the next two years retraining for something else. Either way it's going to cost us so it's worth looking at all options once again many thanks she hasn't been put off but does understand it may not be realistic. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 I'm a tree surgeon, I currently work for network rail but have done everything except forestry, including power lines, land clearance and domestics. Ill be brutally honest, there's not enough work out there. There's guys that have years of experience and are very good climbers, who are only doing two/three day weeks as a subbie. Get a job on the books somewhere, for example Glendale and they offer peanuts, I was offered a job with them a few years back and they wanted to pay me about 6 quid an hour! I've worked at electricity northwest doing the power lines, they paid 17k. The pay isn't enough for the danger of the work and the amount of graft, you definitely have to want to do it. Like anything the training is just the start, my advice is if she wants to do it, go do the chainsaw courses, the aerial rescue course and the chainsaw from a rope and harness course, that way you might have a better chance of getting work, but expect to stay firmly on the ground for a good while, and don't expect a job straight away, it took me about two years to get a full time job, and then it wasn't permanent. MikeC's got a point... There is still work for cutters about but most of it's not fun - I hated most Rail work but inherited liabilities was spotty dog. Live line LV is mind numbing, HV is more fun and Grid is again spotty dog. The trick is to be more than a cutter or a chipper bitch. For example according to the law every 28th Feb every bird in the country makes a nest; come July 31st they all stop nesting (unless like this year they have been told to keep nesting for another month); so unless you are on emergency works or play the visual inspection card, nothing gets cut. But H&S tree Inspections are easiest between the end of March and the end of September. This is also the period of the year when Horticultural Maintenance is busiest - so if you can adapt or change roles easily, you work better. Tree Officers are paid a fair wage and it's often a job share situation as it's a council role Mike why not give us a bell - you've most likely still go the number Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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