smallfry Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Now, before I start, this ISNT a knock the Rover V8 thread as such. I run them myself, but of late it seems there are nothing but problems, and I am trying to justify/quantify to myself whether to persevere with them, and I am wondering what you guys think and feel about them, and why we do it. Or not....................... It isnt a petrol versus diesel thing either, as I am well aware that diesel engines are more economical and are more water resistant, but for me these are NOT reasons enough to have one, and indeed I DONT. So, WHY do you guys persevere with them ? They are fifty year old design which guzzles fuel, and have a fairly limited power output. The big bore engines will more like as not have liner problems. Camshafts and rockers/shafts wear out in no time at all. Hotwire injection systems that run too lean. Ignition systems that are unreliable. etc etc etc Now I KNOW all of these can be fixed, but by the time you have spent £1500 on top hat liners plus whatever else that entails, £400 plus on camshaft etc (which will need doing again in the not too distant future) Get the standard ECU chipped or spend £1000 on a decent injection and ignition system or carburettor/s. etc etc. THEN if you want to try and get more power out of it, spend god knows what on machining and tuning goodies, and then are left with an engine on the edge of reliability and drivability, and even then not getting THAT much extra power for all the money spent, I am sort of thinking, am I wasting my time ? There are more modern, reliable, powerful, and econonmical engines out there that we could use nowadays, and they are not THAT difficult to fit, even with the electronics to sort out, and will cost a lot less to do unlesss you want to go silly. So why do we do it. Apart from tradition, and keeping things sort of standard for all sorts of reasons, I am struggling to think of any. Help ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I won't bother with a RV8 again, Lexus 1UZ-FE + Megasquirt, 250+ BHP out the box (more than any of the LR RV8s I think?), tunable, superchargeable and bullet proof to 9000rpm. That's for a 'sensible' motor, clearly if wanting more than 300BHP you can get a yank lump to do the work for you, but as an every day vehicle engine it would be hard to beat a Lexus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I bother with it because it is still in the engine bay and working and everything fits around it. If it were to die I'd go 1UZFE in a heartbeat. If you want an engine to burble along at minimal revs all day long I think you'd need to look long and hard to find something better than the RV8 though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Having had to deal with them in a previous life I've never had much of a fondness for the Rover V8. Must admit, if I had to have a petrol-powered LR I'd go either for a blown T16 as fitted to the Rover 820 Turbo [and in non-turbo form to the Discovery MPi so all the hardware to mate it to the gearbox-of-your-preference already exists] or the 2.8 straight-six M52 BMW [again used by Land-Rover in South Aftica so the hard-parts are already in existence]. The M52 is a lovely engine which just loves to rev - unlike the LR V8 offerings...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggie Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I won't bother with a RV8 again, Lexus 1UZ-FE + Megasquirt, 250+ BHP out the box (more than any of the LR RV8s I think?), tunable, superchargeable and bullet proof to 9000rpm. That's for a 'sensible' motor, clearly if wanting more than 300BHP you can get a yank lump to do the work for you, but as an every day vehicle engine it would be hard to beat a Lexus. I like the sound of the Lexus V8 lump, do you know much about fitting into a RRC? Actually don't tell me, I really don't need something else to think about or it might be another 4 years sat on the drive But yes I do agree about the Rover V8, although I'm a V8 fan the RV8 isn't much to shout about & so underpowered. Compared to my 340bhp 4.2V8 in my Audi it feels so lacking & powerless. Both basically 4.0 litre but the Audi is nearly twice the power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I had been away from land rover for a couple of years but my first Disco back in the club wsx a 3.9 V8. Why? Because it kicks the stuffing out of the diesels all day long, and as long as the pockets are deep enough they go loads better and I always found the V8 more driveable than the slow diesels on offer, rightly so they can all fly after tuning but the v8 was a rocket straight out the box. Would I have another? Good god no, petrol 4cylinder engines today of 2ltr capacity can do loads better than an 8 just missing the sound track, but sorry to say I will never again be in a position to afford to run one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Must be horses for courses. I'm on my fifth Rover V8 and absolutely love them. Reasons? They're cheap. They run amazingly well when they are almost dead. It takes a lot of mileage or bad maintenance to make them almost dead. They have the perfect power delivery for off-roading, putting out usable torque at revs so low the rev counter (if fitted) has long since gone for a nap, yet revving as hard as you need when the situation calls, all the time producing enough torque you don't have to stress about what gear you are in. They'll sit on our legal speed limit with plenty in reserve for passing yet waft along in slow traffic with a feather touch on the throttle. They are quite a light engine. If you stick with a carb version, they are dead simple to work on. Best of all, I find the fuel economy truly excellent for what they are and wonder what people do to them when they complain. For example, when I drove a 1982 Range Rover across Australia in 2004, via the deserts, I found I was using considerably less fuel (20m.p.g.) than people I talked to doing the same thing in diesel Land Cruisers (generally around 17m.p.g.). Sure, if I was mega-wealthy, I'd opt for a modern turbo-diesel but factoring in depreciation and servicing, I wouldn't actually save any money unless my road mileage was very high, which isn't exactly why I own a Land Rover! As for a modern, high-revving, super-complicated V8s and big sixes, well, they're great for a big saloon or sports car but what on earth is the point in a Land Rover? Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redneck Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Never liked the RV8, weak under powered and bloody expensive to do anything with, played with Yanks for many years and if I was to to do a V8 swap it would be a yank, but I wouldn't bother doing a swap because I'd have to change everything thing else, gearboxes axles etc etc to make it reliable, much easier to go and buy a yank pick-up, which I've had a few of. Modern vehicle transplants are interesting from a technical point of view but I want a simple to fix vehicle (hammer and spanner), reasonable power, good torque, reliability and simplicity............... a diesel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted January 1, 2014 Author Share Posted January 1, 2014 This is NOT what I expected ! I am glad its not just me ! You see, I have got a Ford 400(6.6) V8 engine and box that came out of my best mates (now deceased) Ford Torino before it rusted to bits in 1990. It had a lot of money spent on it, even though it was an "unfashionable" lump, and was very quick back in the day. I was sort of saving it for a rainy day. I had a dyno printout for it somewhere, but from memory it put out 360hp and 430lbs ft. I do remember that it gave 270 lbs ft at 900 rpm, and there wasnt anything round here that could touch it at the time. Its a different kind of performance though, not frantic and whizzy like modern engines. Only downside is, 8 to 10 mpg. And runs out of revs at 5500 ! However, I am not really into out and out performance now, cant see the point and also now theres a speed camera round evry corner, and besides, its a Land Rover ! I am just thinking more of reliability, longevity, smoothness and relative economy. hene thinking something more modern. However, its still a lot of hassle and expense though, but for me I think its more about doing it than actually driving it, as much as I like it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Having had to deal with them in a previous life I've never had much of a fondness for the Rover V8. Must admit, if I had to have a petrol-powered LR I'd go either for a blown T16 as fitted to the Rover 820 Turbo [and in non-turbo form to the Discovery MPi so all the hardware to mate it to the gearbox-of-your-preference already exists] or the 2.8 straight-six M52 BMW [again used by Land-Rover in South Aftica so the hard-parts are already in existence]. The M52 is a lovely engine which just loves to rev - unlike the LR V8 offerings...! t16? really? i have a disco mpi and whilst on paper it is nearly as powerful as a tdi, it has NO torque at low end (not something that would change with a turbo/supercharger) and drinks fuel. i mean 8mpg whilst towing less than 1ton behind it. i get more from a fully freighted 7.5tonner! (and easily beaten by a rv8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 The rover v8 is useful if you are competing too.... It was a good engine for its time, but by today's standards well it's a little past it now unless you have deep pockets to try to free up power, but even then it's efficiency in comparison to what other engines are currently being produced is lacking. Why fit / keep fitting it.... it fits the belhousing of various landrover gearboxes + it's bits are relativity cheap / easy to find in the UK. Trying to do a oddball conversion is hard going trying to uprate and mate everything together (speaking from present conversion experience) + a money sinker.... but hopefully the end product will be good too ... so if you want a petrol LR your options are limited when easily mating to an LT230, but it's a much easier path for conversion. Although not LR related, but oddball conversion related..... here's a few clips of a Diesel Lotus Elise, I was talking to someone recently who knows the owner, and a comment was passed that he feels a little guilty on track days where he fills up on his way there, does a trackday a better than 40mpg and goes home on the same tank.... where his fellow track dayers are filling their lotus 7's etc no end... and can't keep up with him https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Lotus+diesel&oq=Lotus+diesel&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i61j0l4.4508j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I'm with robertspark on it fitting to LR gearboxes, it also has the benifit of not destroying them very often as they are so weak!! It also is light and compact. I'm sure modern yank V8s (LS onwards) are much lighter than early yank V8s but back in the day IIRC an ally Pontiac was circa £18k untuned? All in all though tghe RV8 is not bad for an engine abandoned by the yanks as no good? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 1UZFE, Lexus autobox, Surf transfer box grafted on, Patrol axles (centre rear diff), all your worries are gone... well maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Well, I'll take it over any of LR's mechanical diesel offerings any day. A TDV6/8 of course is a different story... But really, it fits, the rest of the components can handle it, and it's adequate power for what the average LR driver wants to do with it. Stuffing in a high-revving Jap lump just seems like a horrible idea, I drive like a retard and am not that high up in the rev range all that much. Do you really need 9k RPM in an LR? An LS or something is nice, but really not a much more modern design. They have more power, yes, but also drink quite a bit, and parts availability outside the US is horrendous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 t16? really? i have a disco mpi and whilst on paper it is nearly as powerful as a tdi, it has NO torque at low end (not something that would change with a turbo/supercharger) and drinks fuel. i mean 8mpg whilst towing less than 1ton behind it. i get more from a fully freighted 7.5tonner! (and easily beaten by a rv8) Yes, I really like the T16. Those fitted to the 1990s Rover cars were deliberately torque-limited because the cars were FWD and at the time Rover didn't have a packageable gearbox/torque-biasing diff setup that would handle the torque without bursting. When the Disco was first released, the MPi was the one with the highest top-speed. Imagine how it would have gone with a 200BHP turbocharged version under the bonnet. You just need to un-learn the UK taxi-driver 'get it into top as soon as possible' mentality and use the gearlever. I towed horseboxes with a T16-powered Rover 600 and it was really rather good (except for the wheelspin). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Had the 3.9 with megasquirt in for over 2 years now on the auto, goes like stink. not done a thing to it apart from some fresh oil. . <--- I had hotwire system before again no problem apart from deep water and after a couple of years a bit of moisture in the injector harness to a few of the injectors made it miss now and again. but all in all the engines themselves don't give trouble unless messed with! oh there cheap, plentiful, you have gearbox options to play with again plentiful and cheap.... I have had a 4.2 sat in the garage for 2 years now, i'm waiting to kill the 3.9.... i have been purposely being fairly rough with it, even overheated it a couple of times (heavy mud blocked rad) to try and find any excuse to replace it. the hotter she gets and the more abuse i give it the better the engine seems to be getting... 4.2 will have to say on the bench for a bit longer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Stuffing in a high-revving Jap lump just seems like a horrible idea, I drive like a retard and am not that high up in the rev range all that much. Do you really need 9k RPM in an LR? An LS or something is nice, but really not a much more modern design. They have more power, yes, but also drink quite a bit, and parts availability outside the US is horrendous! Agreed on both points, you don't need 9K, and nor are yank V8s particularly economical, but they are often more frugal cc/cc than a RV8. But.... The lexus V8 produces in stock form 200lb/ft at just 1000rpm, for an auto it's not so critical, but for a manual it would still be a great choice. 9K rpm shows the bullet-proof nature of these engines, they are truly race-derived so obscenely over engineered. A RV8 will go to ~5300rpm IIRC but I bet you don't use that all the time either, but equally I bet you wish sometimes when you picked the wrong gear off-road you wished it did have a few more revs... Oh and being race-derived it is light, REALLY light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 My god, stop it already!!! I had already talked myself into a 2ltr 4 pot petrol above a diesel this is just making me hungry for another 8 in my next project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 LPG and it's as cheap as a diesel to run... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 LPG and it's as cheap as a diesel to run... Yup, annoying on sundays though Unless you can find a pump on the motorway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 In UK there's unattended pumps run by Countrywide Autogas, you have a digital-key and a pin that you put in the pump and you get billed at the end of the month... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Yeah, here there's still the retarded law that the station's shop must be open when the pump is active. You don't even need the attendant, as everything is pay by card anyway. Infuriating, and starting to get off topic now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 IMHO despite many flaws they do offer good power/torque for the relatively low price of an MOT failed RR or Disco, and bolt in and live happily with Land Rover drivetrain using parts-bin bits. In good nick they are pretty bulletproof and tolerant of abuse. MPG is poor but not abominable for the power (mates with Nissan Patrol or TLC diesels don't get over 20mpg, so 15-18 from a 4.6 V8 when the fuel is cheaper is fine by me). I agree it would be pointless to throw thousands at a Rover V8 if you wanted much more than the standard power output (225bhp from the 4.6, maybe 250 with cam & ECU etc.), but going much further than that you're then endangering the rest of the drivetrain, and it all snowballs from there. Sure you can get a 400hp LS or whatever for $2000, but I wouldn't bolt one into a stock LR as there's not a lot of point. When building the 109 I looked at other lumps, but it becomes surprisingly hard to beat the RV8 as an all-rounder in a big heavy 4x4 - plenty of modern lumps make more HP but very few make anywhere near the torque off idle, save a significant amount of fuel, are cheap/easy to source, etc. etc. - you can improve everything a bit, but then you have a non-standard engine that may or may not be designed to run off-road. I suppose the short version is that the Rover V8 is the "least worst" answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camel1 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Hello first post on here and the subject is of interest to me. Have raced with rovers for a number of years (comp safari) used most sizes and built with nearly all the options you can ,cams,heads, blocks, and such like. The last was 3.9 with a supercharger (went well of its knees but ran out of steam at 4200rpm but that was the blowers fault not the engine.) Last three years have used a 1uzfe lump out of a Celsoir 1993 standard engine at first with the Toyota ECU just a few niggles. Now running on a Microsquirt and theres a massive difference both power and torque. Pulls like a train in any gear and with the rev limit set at 7200 never feels as if its going to let go!!. Rovers a good old lump for what it does cheap as standard but expensive to get more and also risk the reliability. Toyota newer design built to launch Lexus as brand against BMW/Merc and other top brands they had to get it right from the word go!!!. Just a few photos of my build.https://picasaweb.google.com/103361575555833061455/JohnSCompMotor?noredirect=1# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 The problem is that to mate to an LT230, you are a little stuck with gearbox selection or the use of easy to find adapter plates for bellhousings. Rakeway seem to be able to make kits to bolt near anything to anything, but the development costs are high, hence the conversion costs are high too. It is a pitty that Landrover never did an AJ8 for the ladder chassis (solid axle) landrovers (Def, RR P38, Disco II) as this would have allowed us to at least use those conversion parts the do near straight swaps for those of us that love a v8.... the problem in this conversion is the LT230 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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