Turbocharger Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Getting the truck ready for Morocco, I notice that the rad is missing some fins, particularly in the top half of the matrix. Looking more closely, the tubes have moved closer to each other at the centre of the matrix too - where my finger's pointing. It's not leaking at the moment and hasn't given me any particular grief - would you take this on a long hot journey, or should I bite the bullet and replace it now? It's six years (and probably 20,000 miles) old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffR Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I would err on the side of caution, ask yourself how easy it would be to get a replacement in Morocco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 If staying in this country I'd carry on, but going abroad, I'd change it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 It's never going to be cheaper or easier to replace than right now, especially as you've already got it out of the truck. Personally I wouldn't think twice about replacing that, or indeed anything that wasn't brand-new, before a long & remote journey. Pretty much regardless of the cost too - cambelt & clutch are both fair game for a cautionary replacement if there is ANY doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Long hot journey? I wouldn't take it to the shops It looks pretty grim for a 6 year old unit. I'm amazed it hasn't leaked with the tube flappin' about. Either way, it'll be much worse at shifting heat than when it was new, especially at low speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Buy one with metal ends too, the plastic ends tend to crack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 No no no! That's not the answer I wanted to hear! You're all right, of course... better price up a rad then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 As the existing headers are (or appear to be metal) simply get the core changed, even better get a 1/2" matrix x 4 row core, the std. Land Rover matrix is 1/4" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Buy one with metal ends too, the plastic ends tend to crack! Specifically, buy one that's all copper/brass - plastic cracks and ali is a PITA to repair in the field. Copper/brass ones can be fixed with basic plumbing supplies. Same goes for header tanks, ask me how I know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I'll second that. Working in an ally rad factory I can assure folk that you are going very well if you succeed in fixing an ally rad once it has had 'stuff' through it. Normally the only ones that work are the plant ones with blocks at the end. (plate and bar). I have considered buying one as they are super tough, but a tad pricey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 I've got two options for the same price: - a 2-row 80mm aluminium core (better heat rejection, lighter, stronger, better for corrosion or vibration but harder to repair subsequently) - a 4-row 65mm copper core (heavier and actually lower heat rejection than the ally rad because of a smaller effective surface area, but it could be repaired in the field) I'm erring towards aluminium for better thermal performance, bearing in mind that the critical trip is in two months so corrosion etc won't be an issue by then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Tough choice The only thing I can add is that with the 80/65 ratio it isn't like one will do 80 kW and one will do 65kW. You have to imagine that the air is very hot by the time its done the first 50mm of the fins. The first 10mm is always way better at shifting heat than the last 10mm. So it could be that one does 60kW and one does 65kW, if you see what I mean. Making the copper look not so bad? It's one of those diminishing returns things, plus, the thicker the core the greater the back pressure on the fan and the less air velocity you get. However, if you are pulling a trailer up a steep hill in a hot place and you have the full engine fan + cowl and maybe a booster fan, I would go for the 80mm every time I suppose what I am saying is that thick cores need good fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 I've gone for aluminium. The copper core 'looked' more restrictive to airflow too, since the copper tubes are much larger and the four rows overlapped, so the air path was much more torturous. The copper rad would hold much more water but it's not about the volume in there, it's the surface area. I've got a big Spal fan on the back of it and we'll be shying away from anything too abusive. I know I'm being OTT for a 2-week holiday, these things were factory specced to tow 3500kg across the Sahara (or so we're told) so a new ally rad should be more than sufficient for a little diesel engine pulling two people and a tent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPendrey Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 A little helpful advice... You might want to consider collapsing the tent... it may act as a bit of a sail and/or anchor. I suppose it depends on how big the tent pegs are? Also, put the people inside the truck, they'll be marginally more comfortable, and won't suffer from scrapes and bruises. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I would use a viscous fan, with a means to lock it, and use the electric fan as a backup, either mounted, or as spare, just to have more options. I seem to remember you have an auto box? that is going to want some major cooling also, just a thought. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Okay, just a few pointers Turbo, Firstly get some old head valves as tent pegs, you will be amazed just how hard some "sand" areas are and valves make very good tent pegs - far easier to hit with a hammer and easier to pull out after, I carry some 30 of them from old Ford V8's . Secondly make up a plate as I have to lock your viscous fan, mine is made up of an old 23mm socket ground down to about 4mm deep and welded into a 110 dia plate with the 4 x 12mm holes drilled into it so it bolts onto the fan mounting 10mm bolts - I only fit it when the going gets hot but if you lock your viscous fan you wont need to fit an auxillary electric fan. Thirdly if you are running a ZF4HP22 talk to Ashcroft about fitting the larger ZF4HP24 oil pump, its 15mm longer but far stronger and circulates a lot more oil and keeps it cooler, but even standard the auto is a far better proposition for driving over sand dunes, in a manual the moment you clutch in to change gear you can bog down. The only drawback to this Ashcroft mod is you need a longer front propshaft and a shorter rear (both by 15mm respectivly) and oil line adaptors (Ashcroft can supply) to enable you to use the existing oil lines, the gearbox cross member rubber mounting bolt holes will need to be ovalised by 15mm as well to accomodate the "stretched" gearbox. Lastly, if you hav'nt already, get a satellite phone complete with a docking station and exterrnal ariel. Communication, or the ability to use it is everything, mobiles are totally useless out in the desert and 99% of satellite phones will only operate if you are out of the vehicle and you have connection to a satellite, a "fixed" unit iin a docl\king station with an external ariel s always in communication so you can send and recieve calls constantly while on the move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Lastly, if you hav'nt already, get a satellite phone complete with a docking station and exterrnal ariel. Communication, or the ability to use it is everything, mobiles are totally useless out in the desert and 99% of satellite phones will only operate if you are out of the vehicle and you have connection to a satellite, a "fixed" unit iin a docl\king station with an external ariel s always in communication so you can send and recieve calls constantly while on the move. When we were in Morocco, many years ago, there was a far better mobile phone signal in the middle of nowhere over there than at home ! This was on an Orange handset then, just make sure you arrange it with your provider here before you go. Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Yup, the mobile phone network in Morocco is far superior to here. I had a signal in Erg Chebbi and out in the desert in the South. Phone technology skipped a stage in North Africa resulting in a comprehensive mobile phone network. On the other hand a sat phone would be a useful back up Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 Cooling is in - big ally rad and a gearbox cooler too. There's quite a big gap to the engine and no cowl so a viscous fan won't be too effective (and the "viscous" bit in mine is knackered) but I'll take it in the back of the car as a backup. We'll be in two cars with CB (car-to-car) and mobiles, not planning to buy a sat phone specially for this trip but with a backup vehicle too I'm sure we'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Definately take it if you have it and can jam it up solid. It doesn't have to be able to pull rad air well to help, as long as it blows heat off the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 The trouble with that setup is, that if you are working things hard at high temperature (like getting unstuck), you are basically relying on the electric fan to switch on for your gearbox cooling. I would try harder to get the viscous fan setup reinstated, especially if the engine is in its original position, that should be easy to do. Alternatively, make your own cowling. My 2P anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I would add another 3pence worth but I've found that no matter how much sensible, proven, experienced information you give people on a forum, they don't listen, so it's much better for them to learn the hard way. Experience needs to be hammered in with a big sh*tty stick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 Thanks for the advice, particularly the Hobbit. I'll take the viscous in case the sand hits the fan(!) but a cowl isn't an easy option for the engine or rad position. Modern cars run electric fans only, mine's a decent Spal fan with a thermoswitch and an override, I can wire it to run 100% if necessary. It may be the voice of inexperience but with a locked viscous fan in the back too it looks like I should be covered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I wasn't so much as talking about you son, as about other folk - I just used your thread to do it on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Easy solution ..... get an extension made up so that your viscous fan is correctly located in the housing .... any machine shop could turn one up for you cheaply, oh, and get a replacement viscous drive if yours is defective or suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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