mmgemini Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 As you know I've been away. We visited the museums around Telford. This image was taken at "Enginuity" mainly aimed at children so I was quite at home. Nobody knows anything about this drill. The bolt heads seem to pre-date Whitworth as they are very deep. Everything looks to be a normal belt driven drill, except for the lower geared shaft below the drive shaft. Neither of the gears connect to anything, neither does it look to have provision to have another gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Surely this comes from a era before electric motors, when workshops and production areas were powered by overhead belt drives? looking at the side view, there would the a belt within the frame, connecting the upper and lower horizontal stepped shafts, while there would be an external belt drive around the external pulley on the lower horizontal shaft; this belt would supply the power to the complete assembly. There are other features of this machine that I find less obvious to explain, perhaps only partly because there is (understandably) a lot of visual clutter in the background. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Yes David the belt drive pulleys are easily seen. It's the middle {?} or lower gear shaft I don't understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 isn't that a backgear arrangement for low range Mike? I wonder what the front flatbelt pulley cluster is for? I'm sure I saw Fred Dibnah using a very similar drill in his yard on one of his most excellent tv progs A lovely bit of history cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Might be a small PTO arrangement for a lubricant pump or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 The thing is, those gears don't mesh with anything on the pillar. The drive belt is at the bottom outside the pillar. The four pulleys at the bottom mate with the three at the top to change speeds. The drill bit was bolted for better words with a square headed bolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 .....I wonder what the front flatbelt pulley cluster is for? ..... The small flat belt pulley set on the front is for the powered downfeed by the looks of it, you can see more of that in the first picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 The thing is, those gears don't mesh with anything on the pillar. The drive belt is at the bottom outside the pillar. The four pulleys at the bottom mate with the three at the top to change speeds. The drill bit was bolted for better words with a square headed bolt Might those gears be on an eccentric shaft? That may allow them to both mesh with the gears on the main shaft and act like a back gear as Steve suggests? The small gear on the main shaft would be the same part as the pulleys and you undo a bolt to allow it to spin on the main shaft, then the main shafts large gear is spun by the lay shaft. If any of that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Found this picture on the web and whilst it's a different machine if you look at the top of the picture you can see a similar geared shaft and a handle to engage it .... which is what I was making a poor attempt at suggesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 wow, been past the signs for that place so many times, and the ironbridge are does intrigue me, will definately have to make the trip once back at uni in newport!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I reckon you are right cwazywabbit , power feed , now you said that I remember it was under power on the FD prog with two massive coils of swarf coming off a big drill running at a slow rpm - 60rpm ? I bet its on youtube somewhere cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash.Witty Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 There is one at the Anson Engine Museum in Poynton, they have an engine driven workshop build in progress, pretty sure it's the same as that from memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 There is one at the Anson Engine Museum in Poynton, they have an engine driven workshop build in progress, pretty sure it's the same as that from memory. must of missed that one when we went hmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash.Witty Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 About 19 seconds in, Don't think it's driven in the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 yes, remember now not that i obviously took much note of the drill press at the time lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoSS Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Seems clear to me. Input drive is on the bottom shaft at the back, there's a hand lever which im guessing transfers the input belt to an idler or live pulley to stop & start. The internal belt joins the top & bottom shafts and adjusts the spindle speed. If you look at the front view the middle shaft is set further back and connects to a rack that gives automatic vertical feed. There would be another belt from the 3 pulleys in the oval section down to the middle spindle giving 3 vertical feed speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 What is the shaft below the drive belts for ? No movement on it that I could see at all. I know it's not the best picture but those gears are about half an inch apart now way can they mesh The feed is by a hand wheel on the right in the first pic, to the right of the drill holder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMc Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Google found this flickr gallery of someone's visit to the museum - http://www.flickr.com/photos/ell-r-brown/sets/72157621921666871 Which contains this picture of the drill - Fullsize version (2736 x 3648), here - http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3446/3823885074_b23d3445b7_o.jpg . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 So the gears are nothing to do with the auto-feed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 So the gears are nothing to do with the auto-feed... No, nothing.In reality they do nothing at all that I could see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoSS Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Yeah that photo is much clearer, i thought the middle shaft connected to the feed drive, My best theory is that the middle shaft has dropped. Maybe the bearings are absent? I seems like it should mesh with the upper one, and then it would give a different output speed to the stub at the back thats probably missing a pulley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Well I couldn't lift that shaft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 The stub at the back looks offset from the geared shaft, my money is on it being eccentric and if you twist that stub it lifts the geared shaft up to mesh (I'd bet it should have a handle fitted to it). There are a few old pillar drill pictures on the web, mostly by cincinatti that use the eccentric shaft idea to move the lay shaft to mesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoSS Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Yeah i reckon your right Crazy. If you zoom in on the large photo that PaulMc posted the stub at the back looks to be eccentric to the mid shaft. As you say i bet there was a lever on that stub which rotates the gears up. I think that the upper shaft is 2 concentric shafts, like the vertical drill shaft is. I think that the small gear and the 4 belt pulleys of the top shaft are on the inner shaft which runs the drill shaft, and the large gear runs the 3 small pulleys of the vertical feed. Thus the lever on the stub engages or disengages the vertical feed. You could then disengage vertical feed when running, at the correct depth as you would need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
integerspin Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 The stub at the back looks offset from the geared shaft, my money is on it being eccentric and if you twist that stub it lifts the geared shaft up to mesh (I'd bet it should have a handle fitted to it). There are a few old pillar drill pictures on the web, mostly by cincinatti that use the eccentric shaft idea to move the lay shaft to mesh. My cincinatti lathe had the same arrangement for the back gear, you will find and eccentric bush to mesh the gears. My lathe was very similar except it had two big gears, which slid on the shaft, so you had lo and even lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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