defender dinky Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 hi, a friend of mine has a series 3 petrol and ask me if its possible to put a 200tdi in it, shows in the archives doing swop into a defender but weren't sure about the series 3 any info would be great dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 anything is possible. and im fairly sure ive read os someone on here doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Lots of people have done it, there's a few plumbing issues (turbo / intercooler / coolant / exhaust) but quite doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defender dinky Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 thks I will let him know, dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 try a forum search or google search. It's a very common conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewHorsfield Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 A lot of good info on www.Glencoyne.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defender dinky Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 Found one on Google search 200tdi in a series 3, looks a bit tight in there. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/fenby/landrovers/200tdi_conversion/index.html Would he be better off with a 2.5TD conversion? DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 NO! They're an absolutely cr@p engine, the Tdi on the other hand is a way better engine. Do it right, do it once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 i have replaced my 2.25p with a 200TDi, 5-6 years down the line wouldnt ever look back. the fitting of the actual engine is fairly straightforwards although you have to cut out the battery tray and relocate the battery, it sits on the same mounts although as my engine was from a discovery, you have to bolt the series engine mounting brackets to the 200TDi engine. there are a few different choices when it comes to pipework and cooling and this is where it makes all the difference where looks are concerned the pipework is what makes your install either look absolutely carp or the dogs danglies factory lookalike install. its best to try and fit the TDi rad and intercooler in but pipework is an issue. the exhaust isnt too much of an issue you can use the same conversion downpipes for a series as you can for a 90, and then you just have to adapt a 90 exhaust or make your own. its things like the addition/removal of power steering where things can get a little complicated. you can fit PAS but it requires an amalgamation of parts and cutting/welding the chassis there is not one correct way to do this however there are several "very wrong" ways. if you remove power steering you have a belt pulley issue as the PAS pump drives a donkey belt to the alternator as standard. you can either leave the pump on and recirculate the fluid so it doesent sieze, or replace the pulley with some other custom pulley system, or relocate the alternator. regards to clutches, i use a series 9.5" clutch friction plate with a heavy duty 200TDi pressure plate, you can use a standard series pressure plate but i found they didnt last very long as they couldnt take the torque as well. gearbox, a standard series box will fit, you have to follow the defender conversion instructions for the bottom ladder bolts however, also a couple of studs need relocating but the blind holes are already there in the flywheel housing they just need tapping out. whether a series gearbox can "take the power" is a matter of opinion and driving style. you could fit a 5 speed LT77 but if you have a SWB then it creates quite bad rear propshaft issues and custom props, also you will have to make new gearbox mounts. top speed will be slightly reduced, a diesel doesent rev as much, 3.54 diffs will solve this however and are a straight swap. in cab noise will be increased as direct injection diesel engines are inherently louder than either indirect (a-la 2.25D) or petrol engines, so expect to require some soundproofing too. while you have the engine out make sure you weld the bulkhead wherever needed while access is good. and DO NOT think, oh that bit will be ok for now. 6 months later it wont and you will be wishing you had repaired the rot when you had the chance! take the oppurtunity to sort your wiring out/replace the whole harness. it makes life so much better and looks 100X neater. so in effect its easy to do a 200TDi conversion, not so easy to make it look factory but it is entirely possible as long as you know what you are up against and where to look for parts. any non standard parts you may use, make sure to note down their part numbers and what vehicle they come from as this will make future repairs/replacement much much easier and simpler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollywog Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Some people like the 19J TD option as they feel it's more sympathetic to the Series drivetrain but finding a good one for sale probably isn't easy. Also some people like going the 200Di option but it's more work and I like the power of the turbo. I fitted a Disco 200tdi in my lightweight and as Mikey says I wouldn't want to go back, it makes for a much more usable vehicle in both driveability and economy. As the others have said it's a fairly easy and straightforward conversion but it's up to you how easy or difficult you want to make it. As you can see from the pics I trimmed the front panel and wing allowing me to instal the Disco rad & intercooler complete which gives a lot more room at the front of the engine and means that I was able to use mostly standard hoses. I also have PAS (P38 box) which gives a bit more room for the rad and I didn't have to remove the pump. I didn't clock the turbo I just trimmed the wing around the pipework. Air box is a TD version. For the exhaust I used a downpipe from ebay with a flexi pipe coupled to a Steve Parker back box that I happened across cheap, when it goes I'll get a custom system made up. I just need to tidy up the wiring & remake a couple of brackets to finish it off. At present I'm running a Series 3 box with Fairey overdrive, 3.54 diffs, & 235/85R16's and it cruises nicely. I don't have any sound insulation and don't think it's objectionable but I do put ear defenders in on long journeys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defender dinky Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 some useful info there I will pass it on, pollywog you've done a good job there considering the limited space, dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSF Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I did the conversion that Glencoyn (see above, very good website) recommend which is to ditch the turbo and go normally aspirated. The power is definitely up on a used 2.25 petrol, haven't noticed that top speed is lower and the really big one is the fuel consumption is now in the mid 30s to a gallon as opposed to the 14 or 15 I was getting from the knackered petrol engine. Without the turbo the conversion is very straightforward (see Glencoyn website) with just a bit of custom exhaust to make. You also get to sell the turbo and the engine should last for ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 NO! They're an absolutely cr@p engine, the Tdi on the other hand is a way better engine. Do it right, do it once. I think that's a little unfair, especially considering the 2.5TD and 200Tdi actually share a lot of major components and design. On a personal note, I know of a few high miler TD's, one 170,000+ miles and the other over 200,000+ That said, if you are going to the hassle of the swap, I do agree a 200Tdi is the way to go for only marginally more cost and no real additional hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I did the conversion that Glencoyn (see above, very good website) recommend which is to ditch the turbo and go normally aspirated. The power is definitely up on a used 2.25 petrol, haven't noticed that top speed is lower and the really big one is the fuel consumption is now in the mid 30s to a gallon as opposed to the 14 or 15 I was getting from the knackered petrol engine. Without the turbo the conversion is very straightforward (see Glencoyn website) with just a bit of custom exhaust to make. You also get to sell the turbo and the engine should last for ever. From an mpg point of view I can see why people would do this. However I've never really been convinced that a Di is worth doing and I wonder if they really do make more Hp than a standard "good" 2.25 petrol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I think that's a little unfair, especially considering the 2.5TD and 200Tdi actually share a lot of major components and design. On a personal note, I know of a few high miler TD's, one 170,000+ miles and the other over 200,000+ That said, if you are going to the hassle of the swap, I do agree a 200Tdi is the way to go for only marginally more cost and no real additional hassle. I know of a 200TDi that when it was sold on had gotten upto 650,000 miles with absolutely no major engine work, the most it ever had was a timing belt or 2 and a water pump once. and it got worked hard, and I mean hard! From an mpg point of view I can see why people would do this. However I've never really been convinced that a Di is worth doing and I wonder if they really do make more Hp than a standard "good" 2.25 petrol. I don't know of a Di conversion that returns any more than what I get, in fact I managed to return 28mpg when towing a freelander back from s****horpe to Derbyshire. sat at 56 most of the way I couldn't have asked for any better, I cant see a Di returning that well when under load, but each to their own eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I know a chap with a 200Di in an 88", it goes but over 50mph(IIRC) it runs out of puff, he wishes he had kept it Tdi. So if you are looking at a 109" or require it to lug weight about or tow anything of any size then keep it turboed and be gentle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I know a chap with a 200Di in an 88", it goes but over 50mph(IIRC) it runs out of puff, he wishes he had kept it Tdi. So if you are looking at a 109" or require it to lug weight about or tow anything of any size then keep it turboed and be gentle. I would imagine that this may be because the 2.5 NAD is "cammed" for natural aspiration whereas a TDi is "cammed" for a snail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Same cam shaft in 2.25d, 2.5p, 2.5nad, 2.5TD & 200Tdi. Its only the thread for the pulley/sprocket bolt that was different being changed from 3/8"UNF to M10 when the 2.25d went metric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I think a 2.5NAD is approx 67hp and a 2.5TD approx 89hp. I think there is a CR change between them. But it shows a non intercooled turbo adds 22hp. The 200Tdi def runs lower CR and more boost and is intercooled. Logically this means the turbo must be making more than 22hp difference over a Di with no other changes other than the turbo removed. Defender inlet 107bhp - 22 = 85bhp this is best case for a Di and it won't have the large torque spike without the turbo. I suspect in reality however it's another 10hp difference or more. Which brings it down to 75hp. Pretty on par with the stock 72hp a 2.25 petrol makes. MPG wise, I was meaning Di vs 2.25 petrol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Well, I've a di - it's fine. Cheaper to run and as fast or faster than the tired 2286p it replaced. Easier to fit than a turbo. If you aren't towing, or don't want a fast series, then it is ideal, if soundproofed. It's ideal for pootling about, torquey at low revs, no surge of power, can accelerate up hills no bother. Gearbox and od appear to be coping. Having said that - when I've 3 tonne on the trailer it can be 2nd gear when going up hills, which isn't fun. It is for that reason I'll be strapping the turbo on to the engine soon. I could just turn up the smoke and get some extra horse power, but I like to run a clean exhaust vehicle so I've turned down the power screw to below that for a tdi setting. I'll not fit the intercooler just yet, but I might later on if it runs too hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 You can't assume that because the turbo on the 19J adds 22bhp that the near identical turbo on a Tdi will do the same. I suspect it's more of a power ratio, ie. that adding the turbo adds roughly 33% bhp, and so removing it would see a 25% decrease from the standard Tdi figures. That is rather flawed, though, because there are plenty of other variables like the difference between direct and indirect injection - I suspect the Di makes a big difference to performance, and there is much less energy wasted internally on compression due to the lower cr of the Tdi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 You can't assume that because the turbo on the 19J adds 22bhp that the near identical turbo on a Tdi will do the same. I suspect it's more of a power ratio, ie. that adding the turbo adds roughly 33% bhp, and so removing it would see a 25% decrease from the standard Tdi figures. That is rather flawed, though, because there are plenty of other variables like the difference between direct and indirect injection - I suspect the Di makes a big difference to performance, and there is much less energy wasted internally on compression due to the lower cr of the Tdi. I didn't say the Tdi would do the same, I said that HP gain would be the minimum, as we know adding a non intercooled turbo setup to the 2.5NAD and making it a TD does this. The turbo setup on the Tdi's I would expect to make a bigger difference vs n/a on the same motor. If not, then Land Rover did a tiddle poor job of developing an intercooled turbo setup. Anyhow, it was just some finger in the air figures, using some known facts as a basis. Of course, anyone with a Di is welcome to slap one on a dyno and see how much it makes, but I don't have a Di, so can't do this. As I said, I don't have a real problem with Di setups, but you do hear things like they make 90-100hp. But think about it, an intercooled turbo setup pushing 12-14psi of boost only making 7hp more? It just wouldn't have been worth the cost. BTW claiming a turbo adds 33% is far less accurate, as you've just pulled a figure out of the air. Think about it, the VW 1.8 could be had in 180 and 225hp turbo forms. So for starters a blanket percentage gain is never going to be true, as it will depend on the setup. That said, 33% of 107hp is 35.31hp. Which would make a Di 71.69hp on this guesstimate. Lower than the claimed 72hp for a 2.25 petrol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 its not all about the hp figures anyway, that's just pub talk. what it adds a fair whack of is torque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Drumstick, the 33% was not pulled out of the air - it is the difference in performance between the 12J and 19J by your own figures. I already made the point that you can't transfer the same percentage to the DI/TDI scenario because of the other variables, but it'll be closer than the flat 20bhp you came up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Drumstick, the 33% was not pulled out of the air - it is the difference in performance between the 12J and 19J by your own figures. I already made the point that you can't transfer the same percentage to the DI/TDI scenario because of the other variables, but it'll be closer than the flat 20bhp you came up with. Re-read my earlier post, because I claimed nothing of the sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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