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Tyres and Rims - Improving turning circle


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I am about to replace they tyres and rim on my 110 and want to improve the turning circle.

I currently have 31X10.5X15 wheels on 8 spoke modular rims.

I think the current rims have an offset of 0.

So if I fit a narrower tyre I get a better turning circle right?

My plan is to fit 235/85xR16.

But what about the rims and the offset.

Two choices:

16 x 6.5 Wolf rims with an offset of 22mm

or 16 x 7 modular with an offset of 0mm.

Now my understanding is the modular rims will sit wider due to the smaller offset.

But does this help or hinder the turning circle?

If the modular rims sit wider then I can adjust the lock stops more to give a better turning circle?

Is that right?

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I doubt it will help turning circle. With the tyres you have now and the rim offset, you should be pretty close to the maximum that the swivels will allow. 110s have horrible turning circles. Nothing you can do about it. Make sure you have the steering stops adjusted to give the maximum possible.

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Offset is a funny thing. Not overly difficult, but can seem complex.

In the UK these days, we typically refer to offset as an ET. How many mm from the centre of the nave plate.

This means a 16x8 rim with ET00

Will have an equal dish on each side of the rim. (approx 4")

An 16x8 ET25 means it is 25mm + from the centreline, i.e. about 1"

So you'll have a 5" dish on the back and a 3" dish on the front of the rim.

Where it gets difficult is when you compare say a 16x8 ET25 with a 16x7 ET25. They both have the same ET. But because the rim width is different how the wheel sits in the wheel well will vary.

You may find this chart of some use:

LRRimoffset.png

For the record, narrow tyres won't particularly reduce your turning circle. But they do tend to turn better on them. A subtle difference, but one worth noting.

As someone else said, make sure you have adjusted your steering stops. On the right tyre/wheel combo you don't need the stops at all, just use the full travel of steering box.

Something else worth considering is running some 1" wheel spacers on the front. With a wide tyre this will stop the tyre rubbing on the radius arm. And a wider vehicle track will give a tighter turning circle. All you have to do is make sure it doesn't stick the tyres outside the wheel arches.

235/85's are a good stock choice for Land Rovers. Might be worth looking for some proper 7.50's too. Should be the same height as a 235, but a fair bit narrower.

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Thanks for the info guys - keep it coming.

One thing I still cannot get my head around regarding offset.

Does offset change the turning circle itself or does it just alter how much the lock can be adjusted.

So if the lock was kept the same would a 22ET wolf wheel turn better than a 0ET modular or vise-versa?

Potentially both!

With the right off set rims there is no reason why you can't get a 31.10.50 on a 15x8 to have maximum lock and not rub. The wrong offset and they will hit the radius arm and prevent full lock.

A wider track will also give you a smaller turning circle too. So the further the wheels stick out the better. This ties directly in with the width of the rim also. As a narrower rim sticking out the same amount as a wider rim, will have a wider track between the inside edges of the tyres.

And it can make a huge difference.

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FYI, Wolf wheels are actually 20.6mm offset!

Nope I don't believe they are. The 130/1 Ton rims are this offset. A Wolf is as per my table above.

Either that or the "Wolf style" is different to the OE Wolf rims.

http://tyresdirectuk.co.uk/shop/product-info.php?prodname=6.5x16-White-Wolfe-Style-5x165.1-(Land-Rover)&id=31757

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OK I had a look at the steering stops to see if they could be screwed in any more.

There looks to be some extra room to the radius arm on full lock.

But the bolts are screwed in as far as they will go.

The thing is they are not threaded right to the end......

They look a bit like this one with a shoulder to the bolt:

http://www.shop4autoparts.net/Defender/Axle-and-Suspension/Drive-Shafts,Hubs-&-Swivels/BOLT_STG._STOP.html

Rather than this one:

https://www.jgs4x4.co.uk/index.php/lambysettings/index/view/id/1144/

So what is the story - do you think I can swap to the other bolt and get a few extra turns?

This is on a 1989 110 CSW.

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  • 5 years later...

Bit of a thread revival ....

I’ve an offer of some Wolf rims and I’m wondering if the 18mm difference from the radius arm, to the Boosts I have on now, would make an appreciable difference to lock.

I don’t really know what real world difference these numbers make.

C1B5A996-188B-4756-8C31-08C1BBB0BE72.thumb.jpeg.f7d617624030de41afe481ce1ffe8c62.jpeg

2EEDEA7D-BB54-447F-9659-6213BC497C58.thumb.png.79b065db1ae46340bf2b0670858531a9.png

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You are comparing two rims that sit a fair bit inboard, compared to say the generic aftermarket 7x16 modular rim. I can't imagine the difference being light and day.

I run 255/85R16s on 7x16 modular rims (can't see any offset figure stamped on them) and get excellent lock. That's to say the stop bolt couldn't really be adjusted in any further, and the tyres don't contact anything except on full articulation. My 110 is easier to get into a Tescos car park space than our Merc B class!

By contrast, the way LR despatched vehicles fitted with 7x16 Boost alloys (sit MUCH further inboard) results in an horrific turning circle, and has in the past resulted in very a embarrassing trailer maneuvering incident (110 with 235/85R16s). After that day I got under with the spanners and was able to improve things a fair bit without any tyre rub.

I think you really need to achieve at least 25-30mm outward spacing to make any significant improvement in available lock. This is about the thickness of a lot of wheel spacers I think, but I am not a fan of such things.

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9 hours ago, Anderzander said:

Bit of a thread revival ....

I’ve an offer of some Wolf rims and I’m wondering if the 18mm difference from the radius arm, to the Boosts I have on now, would make an appreciable difference to lock.

I don’t really know what real world difference these numbers make.

Yes they could. The alloys are quite fat and sit quite inboard, so will hit the radius arms quite readily with the tyre if you adjust the steering stops. The Wolf rims should help give you a bit more clearance. As they move the centre line of the rim in relation to the outer edges. Although a narrower tyre would give a more pronounced affect.

A 255/85 is right on the limit of the recommended size for a 6.5 rim, but should work. I'd suggest adding a 1" spacer on the front would help a lot. I am running One Ton rims like this on my 88 currently. Albeit with smaller tyres.

Edited by Chicken Drumstick
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For what it's worth, for some real world experience I've got some Zu alloys on my 110 which I think sit out quite a bit (quite a high negative offset?) and when I adjusted the steering locks to compensate I was staggered by the improvement in the turning circle.

Done about 80k on them and given them a fair bit of abuse off-road, might have a significant dent in one as the local tyre shop who I have absolutely no complaints about commented they really struggled to balance one (and couldn't quite). They fitted it on the rear where it would make less of a difference and let me know in case it caused an issue. So far not.

I've compared it to 90s on standard wheels (LR ones not after market) and it will out turn them. Putting them onto a 90 should improve things massively. From memory it's now comparable to my L322 was turning circle wise. Regardless of whether it's better or not I can maneuver the 110 like a normal car now (after all it's not significantly longer than a Ford Focus).

Naturally I had to do something about it so bought the 6x6 :hysterical:

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