daveturnbull Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 So I have a bit of a snakes nest behind the dashboard / centre switch panel in my hybrid which I really need to get on and sort out. Looking for inspiration / tips on how best to go about making it all nice and neat. The bulk of the mess is down to having far too many carling switches and a few other bits and bobs crammed into the centre console. I haven't really got the depth for the special carling connector blocks so everything is on spade terminals. What do the collective favour for multi-way connectors, spade terminals (crimp or solder), cable wrap, earthing points, relay mounting and general wiring tidyness? If you have something neat that you are proud of then pics are welcome for inspiration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Wiring..... Don't we love it Yes, that is garden hose. Yes, that is unusual. Yes, it works fine. No, I don't mind people telling me it is ..... different. I crimp the connectors etc. Tape where needed and loads of cable ties make it all sit nice and tidy. The cables have various numbers (001 - 837), a computer database tells me where the number stands for what. Over 75 fuses are fitted and conventional lights are used outside through 18 relays. Remote controls - custom coded - for doors, winch, alarms etc. 2 FB Batteries make for all the power I need en route. Diesel cooker, Webasto night heater and a huge Canadian heater in the pass. footwell are a few of the things fitted. We run loads of earth cables, aswell as earth through the body / chassis. Relays in sockets and a different dash. GPS, Brantz etx. are all behind voltage stabilizers and surge protectors. 50 mm. cable to the startermotor and Husky winch and several manual cut-out switches. Most cables are 4 mm2 and run directly from fusepanel to consumer. Have been using this system for 35 years in many different (abused) vehicles and it works very, very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoSS Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Its really quite hard to get decent connectors for DIY. I have used VWPs multipole spades - but they are quite bulky and oversized for small signal lines. Molex are a little better, but require a special crimp. I used ITT canon (or russian ex-mil) circular round connectors for going through bulkheads etc. Very high quality, water -resistant and solderable. can be picked up cheaply ex-mil surplus. Honestly i find recovering connectors from a scrap yard works pretty well, they are high quality, good denisty and can be found with mixed high & low current pins. Obviously you have to cut with the loom and extend the wire with a solder joint. Looms need some protection (nothing against garden hose if you have room). If there are no sharp bits around i would just cable tie the loom. Otherwise spiral wrap internally, or flexible plastic conduit externally. Plan the looms out, work from one end and leave a bit extra wire, loom it up and then cut the other end to suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 When I get as far as needing to wire my truck I will be running a standard loom. All the extras will then be wired from a separate box under the cubby. The plan is to have the sets of wires for each accessory on a plug. This way I don't need a plug with more than 6 ways so I'm using the Durite superseal connectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wood-gee Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I personally really rate econoseal connecters if you're looking for multiway ones, which are what's used as standard in the likes of old discos. They're nice and cheap off places like ebay, can be mounted to a tab so can be kept nice and tidy and because of the pin layout (multiple rows) the many pinned versions aren't too bulky, plus they go up to at least 13 way, as well as looking nice and stock. I also personally prefer using non insulated spade terminals with insulated covers where possible as I generally struggle to get a good crimp with the pre insulated red-blue-yellow ones. Vehicle wiring products can be quite good for connectors, although I'm sure you could find cheaper if you looked harder: http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/section.php/72/1/non-insulated-terminals If you find yourself needing to buy a crimp tool you can do quite well looking on ebay - I got a non insulated ratchet one on which you can change the jaws for about 12 pound whereas they were more like 30 from proper companies like vehicle wiring products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 On that note, a decent quality crimper is well worth paying for if you have lots to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoSS Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Using 5v for switching will not improve contact arcing. Its not going to be a problem at 12v anyway as long as you use suitable rated switches. In fact at 5v you make it worse in theory. Voltage across the contact opening will be given by dI/dt, as the current in a 5v circuit is higher for the same power, you will have a higher dI and therefore a higher V. Just use a relay with a bypass diode on the coil. An yes agree with Wood-gee, you can get better results with non insulated fold type crimps. And also agree that you get what you pay for in crimp tools, dont be to eager to buy the cheapest around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 My thoughts are: Plastic pre-insulated crimps don't look very professional and certainly not OE - so I use non insulated with the clear insulation covers. Build it like a factory loom - 25 wires all the same length coming into the back of the console are always going to look like a birds nest and they are never done like that by the factory. So I work out a route - loom to first switch (shortest wires), on from that to the 2nd are slightly longer, on from that to the 3rd etc. If there are tons of switches you can run more than one loom to it - but it's still about grouping the wires together. Tape it up, or use trunking, whatever looks factory for you - but something that makes it hold its shape and look like a loom instead of a mass of wires. Headers - how you put multiple live and earth feeds makes a difference to how it looks and can reduce the amount of wiring. So far on my Td5 I've done emery thing by tapping into empty fuse and header slots - but when I end up with whole new circuits I'll be looking for some factory type headers if possible. A picture part way through my winch switch installation, using block connectors but showing the routing and lengths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I would also say, conduit may look tidy and nice, but unless you NEED it for protection (like in an engine bay) it is pretty horrible bulky stuff, that ends up with cheese-gratered fingers, which is never good. For stuff that is hidden behind dashboard, for re-wrapping damaged OE looms, I use fabric loom tape, which stops abrasion damage pretty well, is easy to apply and looks factory, at least on the age of cars I work on: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-25m-x-19mm-Wiring-Loom-Harness-Adhesive-Cloth-Fabric-Tesa-tape-/140990292704?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368 Insulation tape, by comparison, is awful stuff, and for most stuff it should be viewed as temporary, it loses stickiness very quickly, and just falls off, especially in warm places. Another note against conduit, splitting off one or two wires is not easy, it needs to come through the slit, and then you have to try and tape a smaller piece of conduit to a larger piece, mostly leaving what can pretty accurately be described as a dog's dinner in your wiring loom. Loom tape avoids that and looks very neat. Second everything said about getting the lengths right, when you sit the wires on a bench and work it out it can end up very neat, either that or run them all through overlength and trim to length as you fit the crimps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveturnbull Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 Thanks Bowie - tape purchased. I agree with the thoughts on pre-insulated crimp terminals. I've never liked them, but they are convenient. I'll look at the non-insulated variants and covers. So one of the situations I have is a bank or carling switches, 7 of them all in a row. Specific functions aside, they all need a live and earth for the illumination. Currently they are daisy-chained from one to the next with pre-insulated crimp terminals - and it looks horrible. What would people say is the best way to go about making up a bit of loom for this? I quite like the idea of splicing the wires (and soldering) so they spur off the previous feed. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoSS Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 For carling switches use the connectors that you can also get from Mudstuff. It makes it far easier to replace a switch if it fails and can make the loom neater. I also daisy some grounds an illumination along, just needs to be loomed in a tidy way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 That's why I'm using the carling switch plugs. Will give me a nice factory finish and means I can easily unplug them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveturnbull Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 Should have said - I've not got the depth behind the panel for the carling multi-plugs, otherwise I would be using them as they are a neat solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 How short of space are you? I'm sure I remember looking at them and thinking you could easily shorten the back of the plugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveturnbull Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 It's mainly due to the angle of the different sections of the mud panel, and switches on the top and middle sections. I could probably get the connectors on one row, but not both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 My carling switches with multiplugs and the illumination daisy chained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoSS Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Should have said - I've not got the depth behind the panel for the carling multi-plugs, otherwise I would be using them as they are a neat solution. They really dont use much more (5mm max) depth than a insulated crimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Main points: - Use cable ties, LOTS of cable ties. They are your friend for bundling, looming, separating, and preventing abrasion. My advice usually is buy a bag of 1000 and try to use all of them, you won't succeed but it will put you in the right frame of mind! - Nicely looming things into neat/logical groups etc. makes life easier. - Leave enough slack you can pull things out to work on them, route them round things without stretching, or re-terminate and end but not so much you have wires dangling in things or have to jam it all behind the dashboard and force the panel shut. - Conduit, trunking etc. take up space and are often a pain, I use spiral binding where I want that sort of effect but even that can be tedious to apply. - Good crimps done with a good crimper are good. AMP Econoseal are nice (and factory on some LR's and other cars) for multi-way but can be a fiddle. TBH the most important thing is to try and do it well and take care, it's less critical whether you crimp, solder, wrap or zip-tie etc. than the fact you took some care over it in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Second to what wood-gee mentioned: non insulated terminals with the correct crimp are miles better than insulated ones. I use heat shrink on them afterwards for a neat finish. Heat shrink I used on the entire loom, only disadvantage is that adding a wire later is not possible. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozyboy Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Ive not seen anyone lace a loom with waxed string in years..... Very very nice job, seriously well done.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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