Decat Downpipe Doesn't Fit Properly

[dave1607]

Hello All

I helped a mate fit a decat downpipe to his TD5 90 at the weekend. When we came to fit it, It seemed that the pipe was too long and we had to push the rest of the exhaust system backwards to get the downpipe to line up at the front, but when you drive it the rear section of the exhaust knocks on the fuel tank bracket.

Has anyone else had this problem, we are going to return the pipe for a refund and buy a different make, probably Allisport unless anyone can recommend something else. It's a massive pain as we will have to go through the fun of removeing the gearbox crossmember again.

Thanks

Dave

[Aragorn]

AFAIK the early TD5's didnt have a cat, so surely you dont need to buy a special "decat downpipe", instead just buy a normal downpipe for an early TD5...

[dave1607]

Good point, I guess this would be WCD000960. All of the standard non-cat downpipes for the early TD5 from the likes of Bosal seem to be mild steel and I think we would preffer some sort of stainless (I believe the standard exhaust is 409 but am happy to be corrected). Most stainless items seem to be marketed as de-cat pipes and attract a premium as a performance product, I think as long as it's made from staniless and fits properly I'll be happy.

Thanks

Dave

[Aragorn]

yeh the factory pipe is quite likely 409.

Not sure where you'll get a 409 replacement from, but you might find a decent nick used factory pipe on ebay?

[neil110]

Aren't double S in your area? Though I hesitate to suggest them after the problems I had getting one of their exhausts to fit at all.

[cackshifter]

Slight divergence(sorry) do we think the standard 300tdi exhausts were/are also 409?

[dave1607]

Aren't double S in your area? Though I hesitate to suggest them after the problems I had getting one of their exhausts to fit at all.

Funny you should mention Double S as that is what the sticker on this downpipe says.

Dave

[Anderzander]

The cat was fitted on MY02 Td5's onwards - so basically the 10p engines didn't have it, the 15p ones did.

I fitted a basic stainless front section that was de-cat and it fit ok - though it's not much use as I can't remember the brand ...... Sorry.

[Farmerfred]

Just out of interest, there is new legislation coming in that affects all vehicles that have had their catalytic converters removed, if the vehicle was fitted with a cat at manufacture and has since been removed it will now have to be re-fitted or renewed otherwise it won't pass an MOT. Bottom line is if you've removed your cat you now have to by Law put it back.

[Bowie69]

Can you link to that please Farmerfred?

My '91 Audi originally had a cat, I suspect it won't affect me, but I would like to know. I removed the innards of mine after it collapsed.

[Farmerfred]

I can't find a definitive link but there are if you do a Google search on catalytic converters and the Law several references. The main thing is that if a vehicle was fitted with one at manufacture it is illegal to remove it because it is an integral part of the emission control system and as such is part of the MOT, the catalytic converter came in 1993. As far as I understand cats on petrol engines have differences to those on diesel engines under the emissions regs.

This is the only reference I have found at this time, hope it pastes okay but will keep looking. Scroll down and read under 'emissions'.

Pasting a link won't work for some reason. Look at the website 'UKMOT.com', click on 'exhaust system' then on the next page scroll down and read under 'emissions'

[Snagger]

Petrol engines have catalytic converters. Diesels have Diesel Particulate Filters. So, a new regulation concerning catalytic converters specifically will not affect diesel vehicles. If it also specifies DPFs, or is a more generic exhaust and emissions control directive, then it would affect us. It'd be interesting to see the regulation, because retrospective tightening of rules is very unusual (for example, older vehicles don't have to be retrofit with seat belts, fog lamps, hazards or even indicators if they weren't mandatory on the year of original vehicle production).

[Anderzander]

My MOT guy said about 12 months ago that they are supposed to be there if they were fitted - I don't think it's new legislation ?

[Farmerfred]

The legislation came into effect in 2012 and all emission control devices are covered on vehicles, both petrol and diesel, that were fitted with such devices at the date of manufacture. Legislation may be different in other Countries but in this instance I am referring to how it stands in the UK and probably all EU member Countries as well.

[Snagger]

In that case, I'd guess that it only applies to vehicle built in and since 2012. It'd be interesting to find the documents, though, just in case it is retrospective. That would make the use of all the decat/de-dpf pipes and EGR removal kits illegal, though perversely it doesn't make their retail illegal.

[Anderzander]

I don't have a copy but my MOT guy said it was retrospective

[Lewis]

I don't care enough to look myself, but if any of you are keen enough the MOT test manual is available online @ a .gov site.

Largely the enforcement of this change in legislation will rely on the testers knowledge of whether a vehicle should have a cat or not, so I suspect most people will continue to pass MOT without them for a while longer yet

[Snagger]

Back on the origin of this thread, it's interesting and disappointing the brand involved in this. Maverick has also had problems with his SS exhaust, rattles in a badly assembled muffler. The SS exhaust I had on my 109 fit fine, but the grade of stainless was carp - apart from the muffler, the whole thing rusted and looked really ugly; it was solid and serviceable, but not what I had expected.

[dave1607]

We fitted a terrafirma pipe yesterday and it fitted perfectly, so the double s one is going back.

Dave

[GBMUD]

Petrol engines have catalytic converters. Diesels have Diesel Particulate Filters.

As I understand, later 300Tdi and later Td5 have catalytic converters, as do many diesels - a Euro3 thing I think? The cat does not affect soot/particulate emissions. From about 2010, Euro5(?) they must have DPFs fitted.

Chris

[pat_pending]

Diesels can have cat's, they just work slightly differently to petrol ones. Later vehicles will also have a DPF.

To clarify the MOT aspect, all petrol vehicles that are are subject to a full cat' emission test and all diesel vehicles if originally fitted with a cat' and/or a DPF should fail the MOT if it's removed.

In the real world we currently have no way of knowing for certain whether a cat' was fitted originally or if the innards are still in place if one is still fitted. It would be easier to identify a missing cat on a petrol engine.

If it passes the relevant emission or smoke test it's ok by me unless it's blatantly obvious it's gone, and I had proof it had one when it left the factory.

If you want to de cat a diesel and stay risk free, I'd knock the innards out of the cat, it would look standard externally and as the diesel test is only for particulates (smoke) and not chemical composition of the exhaust gas it wouldn't get picked up.

[Landy-Novice]

As I understand, later 300Tdi and later Td5 have catalytic converters, as do many diesels - a Euro3 thing I think? The cat does not affect soot/particulate emissions. From about 2010, Euro5(?) they must have DPFs fitted.

Chris

i was under the impression that diesels dont have cats but are fitted with DOC's? DPF's been fitted way before euro5 same with the scr's (adblue, urea? basically strong tiddle) with the like of peugoet that been using them for years. but dpf's became compulsory due to solid matter killing people in fairly high numbers... around 7000 a year in uk estimated just for diesels.

[Aragorn]

DOC = Diesel Oxidation Catalyst...

IE a Cat Slightly different composition than petrol ones to work with the different makeup of the diesel exhaust gas, but still a catalytic converter.

Most cars with DPF's have both. Usually inside the same can. They have the two monoliths stacked one after the other.

DPF's are required under Euro5, but many manufacturers brought them in before that. My 2006 BMW has one and its a Euro4 engine.