dogdog1 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Hi , Hope some one here can help with this . '95 Defender 110 300tdi was going along very nicely when suddenly began losing power as if it had run out of diesel , but plenty in tank . Got to a grass verge before it died altogether , and discovered no diesel getting to injectors . Checks I've done since getting it back home are as follows . Lift pump brings diesel to filter and into injection pump ( which had been sucked dry presumably by the action of the engine as it tried to feed itself ) . Cranking the engine with the leak back tube detached from the pump will cause diesel to spurt out of the pump . I have live at the shutoff solenoid and it clicks if I flick the detached connector against it with the ignition on , but no click is heard if I just turn on the ignition . I have removed the spring and plunger but it makes no difference . The rockers can be seen to move when cranked and engine sounds normal on the turn . Any ideas anyone ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 you need to crack one of the injector pipes at injector , turn over and see if you get spurt , if you dont the inj pump isnt working Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Try starting it with the fuel cap off. That should rule out the tank breather. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Take off the Fuel lift pump to injection pump hose and manually operate pump - or crank engine. If diesel comes out, there is a problem between fuel lift pump and injector. No diesel could mean either a dead fuel llift pump or blocked fuel lines. I just had the same and it turned out to be blocked fuelline. Compressed air sorted that for the moment.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdog1 Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 13 hours ago, Arjan said: Take off the Fuel lift pump to injection pump hose and manually operate pump - or crank engine. If diesel comes out, there is a problem between fuel lift pump and injector. No diesel could mean either a dead fuel llift pump or blocked fuel lines. I just had the same and it turned out to be blocked fuelline. Compressed air sorted that for the moment.. Do you mean between injection pump and injector ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Between the fuel lift pump on the side of the engine block and the injection pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdog1 Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 I get your meaning now . Lift pump works , it will push diesel through the filter and into the injection pump . Just nothing comes out of where the injector pipes attach , either at the outlet valve or the injector . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 35 minutes ago, dogdog1 said: I get your meaning now . Lift pump works , it will push diesel through the filter and into the injection pump . Just nothing comes out of where the injector pipes attach , either at the outlet valve or the injector . Do you mean with the engine off whilst you operate the lift pump handle? Im not sure it should if the FIP isnt being driven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdog1 Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 15 hours ago, reb78 said: Do you mean with the engine off whilst you operate the lift pump handle? Im not sure it should if the FIP isnt being driven. No , I mean when I have pushed diesel through with the lift pump handle and bled the injection pump by cranking with the bleed screw loosened til diesel poured out then tightening the bleed screw and cranking again . I have also replaced the leaky head pump seal with a new viton one , as per the YouTube video by Dieselgeek , and that went in very nicely . I'm beginning to wonder if the injection pump is knackered . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I understand from your first post that you cracked open the pipes from the FIP to the injectors and no diesel came out when the engine was cranked over and when you checked the FIP it was full of air. Is that right? You say you have checked the lift pump is working and bled air from the FIP, is it still full of diesel after you try cranking the engine over with the injector pipes loose or is it full of air again when you come to check it? Someone else might be able to confirm - I would have thought that if something had caused the FIP to stop delivering to all 4 injectors then the engine would have cut out straight away as if you had pulled out the key? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I wasn't aware of a bleed screw on the FIP ? So once you done all that , including removing the stop solenoid plunger , still no diesel when an injector pipe is loosened ? cheers Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I can't remember if there is a dedicated bleed screw or not on the 300tdi FIP. You can just undo the fuel return banjo to check for air coming from the FIP. Hope that helps you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdog1 Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 As far as I can tell it is full of diesel after cranking . If I remove the shutoff solenoid the hole is full of diesel . If I take out the bleed bolt in the face of the pump between the delivery valves and crank the engine , lots of diesel comes out . I undid the banjo bolt at the filter inlet and fuel comes out when I crank . If I loosen the bleed screw on the filter housing and hand crank the lift pump I soon have fuel squirting out , but when I crank the engine that doesn't happen . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 36 minutes ago, dogdog1 said: If I loosen the bleed screw on the filter housing and hand crank the lift pump I soon have fuel squirting out , but when I crank the engine that doesn't happen . That suggests to me that the cam operating arm on the pump may have broken or that it isn't engaging on the cam lobe (some pumps have longer arms that need a spacer between engine and pump, and if a shorter arm pump is fitted with the spacer in place, the arm might not reach the cam shaft). I can'r remember a bleed screw on the VE pumps. Are you sure you haven't removed an adjustment screw and refitted it way out of adjustment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdog1 Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 What was described as a " bleed bolt " in an article on the Bosch VE pump turns out to be where you insert a dial gauge to set up the pump .. I think . As for the lift pump , it will deliver fuel to the detached inlet pipe banjo when cranked on the key , but only pumps fuel out the filter bleed when hand pumped . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 There isn't a bleed screw on the VE pump. It sounds like you've just fiddled with the parts to set the pump timing inadvertently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 39 minutes ago, dogdog1 said: What was described as a " bleed bolt " in an article on the Bosch VE pump turns out to be where you insert a dial gauge to set up the pump .. I think . As for the lift pump , it will deliver fuel to the detached inlet pipe banjo when cranked on the key , but only pumps fuel out the filter bleed when hand pumped . That's how I understand it , that's the high pressure side to the injectors too . It sounds like the lift pump arm isn't working properly on the cam as snagger said . I'd replace it for the cost involved . So definitely no diesel out of the injector pipes with the nuts cracked at the injectors while cranking ? cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 In my experience the Tdi will run perfectly acceptably with a non functioning lift pump, the injector pump pulls enough diesel. Check for air locks, failing that the only culprit can be the FIP. Mo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I agree with Mo ^^ (only exception in my experience is if the lift pump is leaking) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 On the supply banjo connection to the FIP there is (or should be) a micro mesh filter gauze, this often becomes blocked denying fuel to the FIP, check it and if its blocked clear it with compressed air and slap your wrist for not changing the fuel filter more regularly. If the gauze has been removed you could be up for an exchange FIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 On 22/10/2016 at 0:09 PM, dogdog1 said: Hi , ... I have live at the shutoff solenoid and it clicks if I flick the detached connector against it with the ignition on , but no click is heard if I just turn on the ignition . Your first post in the thread suggests the solenoid works but also that it doesn't. Can you clarify whether it is or isn't opening during cranking? On 22/10/2016 at 0:09 PM, dogdog1 said: ... was going along very nicely when suddenly began losing power as if it had run out of diesel , but plenty in tank . Got to a grass verge before it died altogether , and discovered no diesel getting to injectors . Something went wrong suddenly so I don't see how it can be a FIP screw not adjusted correctly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdog1 Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 20 hours ago, reb78 said: There isn't a bleed screw on the VE pump. It sounds like you've just fiddled with the parts to set the pump timing inadvertently. It's true , there isn't . I just ended up cranking diesel out of the pump timing hole when I removed the bolt . But that doesn't explain the breakdown . I believe whatever caused it to breakdown is the same thing preventing it starting . Whatever that is . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 It may be worth removing the solenoid stop and checking inside for metal flakes with a clean magnetic pick up or screwdriver , although they normally run like that but don't switch off - flakes jam the solenoid . cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdog1 Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 19 hours ago, reb78 said: I agree with Mo ^^ (only exception in my experience is if the lift pump is leaking) Interesting that you should say that , the lift pump has a slight leak . Could this be significant ? I've also occasionally heard a " chickachickachicka " sound out of it lately when under load , but since it started and ran so well I didn't attach too much importance to it . I'll replace the lift pump tomorrow , just to eliminate that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdog1 Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 3 minutes ago, steve b said: It may be worth removing the solenoid stop and checking inside for metal flakes with a clean magnetic pick up or screwdriver , although they normally run like that but don't switch off - flakes jam the solenoid . cheers Steveb I tried that , and removed the spring and plunger just for good measure . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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