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Disco 2 or Disco 3 ..... Discuss!

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8 hours ago, Hercu said:

Magnet....

Totally accepted that I need a "Mind Change"

 IID tool is ordered and eagerly awaiting delivery...and enjoy the vehicle for what it is....Excellent and fixable with the right tools

I was/am spoiled by the simplicity and reliability of the 300 TDi Disco 1 with now 400 000 Km on the clock...Whenever stuck next to the road the tools to fix was a normal set of tools and screwdrivers..Either Fan belt..Water hoses or diesel filter could be fixed in a jiff..

Totally new experience to drive in comfort and then the dreadful "Bong" " Special programs off" and limp to the side of the road just to recycle the key and good to go again..

As a 1958 model myself that kind of technology is hard to get under the belt...Opening the Bonnet with that plastic covers covering the whole engine bay is frightening at first... but I need to adapt or Die...Like the Dinosaurs...

Yes..There is excellent support and that is also my reason for buying a D3 TDV 6 as upgrade

Hercu, I hope when I said  "Mind Change" it didn't come across as being rude in any way. If it did I apologise it wasn"t meant in that context  

I'm a 1959 model so I fully understand where you're coming from :0)

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5 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

 

"I don’t see it as a marmite car at all"
And yet we're at polar opposites in our opinions
. Isn't that the definition of "marmite"?

"None are D2’s. So I’m no manically defending a fanboy position."
That made me smile. Any how why not, its your prerogative to do so and I respect that .... even if I don't agree with it :0)

No, the problems I encountered were specifically D2 problems from personal experience
From the D1 electronics list I did miss off the alarm system

"A D2 uses the same V8 engine, same gearboxes, same transfer box and largely the same axles (just better)."
All of which is apples and oranges when comparing it with a 300tdi

"With a centre diff lock the D2 will perform equally to a D1 if the TCS isn’t working, with it working however, it has far superior off road ability."
No sir, not in my experience. I've run the same conditions as a very experienced off road colleague in a D2, configured as you described, and the D1 was equal to it.

"As for length. Again, how can you like a bigger D3, then claim the D2 is too big??"
I don't think I said a D2 was too big. I said D2 was marketed as being bigger but that in my experience it made no real world difference to what you could put in it or how easily you could put stuff in it.

I think we should do a Captain Jack Sparrow and "agree to disagree" and not derail the thread any further 😁

 

 

 

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OK so comments I have scanned seem to be mostly objective.

D3 bad handling/scary, really, double wishbones all round and managed air. I have passed many cars around bends on dual carriageways and roundabouts.

The D3/4 is by far the most versatile and comfortable 7 seat vehicle LR make/made. for the money you have I would even think about a possible D4?

If you look at D3 then go late not early model, mine is an 05 but they have been improved after 06 I think. For your money a late low mileage is possible.

The diesel has a bad rep in D3 and D4 but this needs to be considered against the numbers produced to see if it is a real problem or not.

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16 hours ago, Magnet6x6 said:

I think we should do a Captain Jack Sparrow and "agree to disagree" and not derail the thread any further 😁

Derail the thread? This is exactly the kind of discussion I was after when I started it - like a few lads chatting down the pub! This is proving to be (for me at least) a most worthwhile read.

Thank you one an all - keep it coming! :D

 

13 hours ago, missingsid said:

The D3/4 is by far the most versatile and comfortable 7 seat vehicle LR make/made. for the money you have I would even think about a possible D4?

Yes - just recently I have been thinking that a D4 might be a better choice... (but still considering all options)

I am hoping that this car will be the 'it'll see me out' one which is why I want to spend so much on it (previously I have never spent more than £3k on a car), so FSH, low mileage and no rust are primary requirements, but space and comfort follow close behind. 

Oh and of course I HAS to be a Land Rover :)

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On 9/13/2018 at 12:50 AM, garrycol said:

DOHC diesels have been around for years - nothing special about them.  Require minimal day to day servicing - cam belts etc are no harder or easier than any other belt OHC engine.  Brakes - the same as any modern vehicle.  No problem.  Suspension arms are basically the same as any modern IFS vehicle - yes airbags are different but are relatively simple to replace though rarely needed.  The air system itself is just a series of tubes and valve blocks all easy to service if needed - the main issue is the compressor which are rebuildable or easily replaced.  Gearbox, tfr case and diffs are easily maintained but if there is a gearbox or tfr case problem then they are off to the experts.

Sorry if you look at these vehicles in the cold light of day and without the bull - underneath they are not a lot different to other vehicles.  Yes some things are best left to the technicians but most routine maintenance is possible at home.

My car is now 11 years old, is used offroad quite a bit - it still has its original air compressor, all original suspension components, original engine, gearbox, diffs and tfr case, but it does have a new alternator early in the year - took about 1 hour 20 mins to do - outstanding work I will do shortly - complete rear brakes (the fronts done last month and took about 1 1/2 hours) and front lower suspension arms - I will probably get someone to put the suspension arms in as I have arthritic shoulders and probably could not undo the hi torque bolts without hurting myself but you only need to watch Youtube to find out how to do these and many other maintenance work on these cars.

Once you start working on these cars the mystic soon disappears.

 

 

You somewhat missed the question. IF IF ;) these are simple and easy. What car isn’t?

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And yet we're at polar opposites in our opinions. Isn't that the definition of "marmite"?

No, I'm more asking how you can love one car and loath another, when they are 90% the same.

 

"With a centre diff lock the D2 will perform equally to a D1 if the TCS isn’t working, with it working however, it has far superior off road ability."
No sir, not in my experience. I've run the same conditions as a very experienced off road colleague in a D2, configured as you described, and the D1 was equal to it.

Depends highly on the terrain, drivers and tyres. The simple fact is, a D1, RRC, most pre TD5 Defenders and all Series Land Rovers run open diffs. They can and do get cross axled and stopped. And on some surfaces, slippery ones will not be able to make all 4 wheels spin all of the time. This is physics, not an opinion.

The TCS of the D2 (or Freelander 1/2, Td5 onwards Defenders) makes a HUGE difference in this regard. The TCS might not be a diff locker, but it is a significant step up from open diffs. Having an open centre diff makes the TCS on the D2 work very hard and inefficiently at times. But as the CDL was available on them at certain times, it's not really an aftermarket modification. With the CDL and the TCS the drive and traction system is the same as a TCS equipped Defender and just as capable. The D2 is just bigger and heavier than a Defender.

 

I don't have a vid of Disco's, but the principle is the same.

Note how the TCS allows the vehicle to drive out of the cross axle (vid should start at 42 sec):

And from the same video (this link should start it as 2min 33sec), this 90 has more flexy suspension and more aggressive tyres, but standard open diffs and no TCS. See how easily it gets stopped. Of course in this "mild" terrain you can drive through/around these issues. But it clearly demonstrates the different TCS makes.

 

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On 9/11/2018 at 3:38 PM, ThreeSheds said:

Got up to maybe £12k to spend, want another Disco (started chasing rust on the current TD5), so the options are a really good TD5 or a not quite so good TDV6.

I am not in a hurry and will be looking for less than 80,000 on the clock.

I am interested in ALL opinions, even trivial ones like 'I don't like the shape', but technical reasons would be nice.

 

Cheers

Roger

p.s. I don't like rust... I really don't like rust!

I think it comes down to what you want really. D3's are probably still a little too new to know how they will fair rust wise. While it's quite well known with D2's now.

IMO the vehicles are quite different.

The D2 is the last of the rugged ladder chassis live axle 4x4's. Developed to it's pinnacle. It does have a lot of body work and it's approach/departure angles aren't great. But like the p38 Range Rover, it has taken all the great things about past Land Rovers and 4x4's and developed them almost to their apex. So you get all the benefits of a proper old school off roader, but in a modern, quiet comfortable and capable road vehicle.

For me, one of the key things about vehicles like these are how they drive. They "feel" like 4x4's still. Which I personally like. The D2 in particular when equipped with working ACE is quite a blast to drive and arguably feels rather sporty. ACE really does prevent it leaning and wollowying. Sadly the p38 Range Rover was never equipped with ACE.

 

The D3 by comparison is a completely different kettle of fish. It is far more "car like" to be in and drive. This arguably makes them nicer on the road, but somehow they feel less "4x4 like".

I daresay, both cars can be fickle. Although the D2 is still relatively simple. The D3 is a more complex vehicle regardless of if people service them at home or not. It simply has more gear on it, more electronics and more features.

Personally I love the styling of the D3 and they can be very practical with their 6 proper seats. And the Terrain Response system does make them very capable. But there is no denying they are big and heavy. They essentially weigh a Lotus Elise more than earlier Discovery's.

 

So maybe it's worth weighing up your intended use. For mostly road use the D3 will be the more comfy vehicle. Although I must admit I do lament the lack of ACE on them, when you compare the body lean (or lack thereof) of a D2. If you want to off road, there is no denying the D3 is massive. And bumpers and sills are highly vulnerable and expensive to protect or repair.

And to be honest, I was looking at D3's a few years ago. Although actually ended up buying a p38 Range Rover instead.

My issue with the D3 is simple. I don't want an automatic diesel. They go ok'ish, but for some reason the auto box makes them a bit dimwitted off the line.

I would want a V8 or a manual diesel. The problems here are. Very few V8's as they didn't sell them for long in the UK and most seem to have galactic mileages on them. And most of the manual diesels are low spec and often high mileage too. If buying a vehicle like this, you might as well buy as high a spec as possible and get as many of the goodies and optional extras you can. Many diesel manuals don't have the rear seats and worse don't have the air suspension, making them comparatively rubbish off road.

 

But the real deal killer for me was the optional rear diff locker on the D3. This isn't something that can be retro fitted (unless things have changed??). So, if you want it, it will need to be fitted from the factory. Some will say you don't need it. But it's one of those things, it was available, I know I'd use it and would always lament not having it. Trouble is, unlike the USA market where the locker was part of the "Tow Package" that almost all of the vehicles get optioned with. In the UK market you had to specifically option the rear locker. Meaning almost all of the D3's in the UK do not have it. All of the Land Rover Experience cars do, as Land Rover know the benefits it brings when off road. But these cars are rare and probably have lead a hard life.

To make it worse, because the rear locker is a bit obscure, it is never mentioned in any adverts and even speaker to sellers they have no idea how to confirm if it is present or not. Meaning the only way to know is to go and physically inspect the vehicle yourself.

As an alternative option. If you don't need the extra rear seating of the D3, then the RRS becomes a viable option. Built on the same platform but with a shorter wheelbase and different exterior styling. The biggest benefit of the RRS is the more abundant availability of V8's or even supercharged V8's or TDV8's. But sadly no manuals of any kind and the same problems as with D3 in finding one with the locking rear diff.

I don't know for sure, but I believe the RRS also has a form of ACE, making them the sharper handling compared to a D3.

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35 minutes ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

As an alternative option. If you don't need the extra rear seating of the D3, then the RRS becomes a viable option

Thanks for all that Mr D.. Interesting and well argued points.

Sadly the RRS or similar is not an option since one of the important uses for this car will be to sleep in the back when touring abroad... One of the things I like about the D3/4 is the extra space in the back. Me and my partner can sleep in the back of the D2 but only just...

The rear locker would be nice, but I've never had one anyway (although always had central lockers) so hopefully the 'terrain response' will be enough,  but I too have noticed the lack of them in advertised cars.

After driving my current (automatic) D2 I really want to get back to a manual, so will be looking for that whatever the model I choose. The amount of work involved in changing the autobox filter is off-putting too!

The car will be used mainly on the road as a main car, with occasional RTV trials, foreign tours and snow and ice thrown in, so I think either the D2 or D3/4 will be excellent for me...

Decisions decisions!

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19 minutes ago, ThreeSheds said:

Sadly the RRS or similar is not an option since one of the important uses for this car will be to sleep in the back when touring abroad...

With the rear seats folded flat you can sleep in the back of a RRS - a double mattress will fit and at 6' I can fit in the back of mine - I do agree though a D3 is 5" longer in the wheelbase so you have that extra room inside of the D3

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1 hour ago, garrycol said:

With the rear seats folded flat you can sleep in the back of a RRS - a double mattress will fit and at 6' I can fit in the back of mine - I do agree though a D3 is 5" longer in the wheelbase so you have that extra room inside of the D3

That surprises me! I'll look into that as well then. Thanks :)

 

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1 hour ago, ThreeSheds said:

The car will be used mainly on the road as a main car, with occasional RTV trials, foreign tours and snow and ice thrown in, so I think either the D2 or D3/4 will be excellent for me...

Decisions decisions!

It sounds like a D3 may be the answer for you. There are no manual D4's I believe, although very early examples did use the 2.7 litre TDV6 not the 3.0 litre. But all were auto. So if it's manual you want, a 2.7TDV6 D3 will be your only choice.

Your mention of RTV's interests me. What clubs/organisaitons do you RTV with? I'll be honest and say I'm yet to see a D3 at any RTV event, although I have seen a few doing Tyro trials.

I think the right person could setup a very difficult RTV with a D3, mostly due to the TCS and putting in sections that will cross axle most Defenders. But, having used to RTV a Disco 1, I'm not sure I'd want to take a D3 on most RTV sections. Too much risk of damage and too big to get round the sections most likely.

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1 minute ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Your mention of RTV's interests me. What clubs/organisaitons do you RTV with?

Currently I am with the Buchan Off Road Drivers Club, but to be honest, since I joined I've not been able to attend anything due to a combination of other commitments and the current car being off the road a lot of the time.

I used to do RTV events with The Yorkshire Off Road Club though and decided that as long as you are not too competitive and don't mind pulling out when a section gets too iffy, and have bumpers and rock/tree sliders, it's fun to drive around the course. Although over the years, my RRC did get rather 'modified' :D

The other thing I am thinking of is joining The Highland 4 Wheel Drive Club, who have 'drive-outs' that look like fun. As you are probably aware there is no such ting as 'green lanes' in Scotland, but from what I have seen the H4WDC get permission to drive the estate tracks that are in abundance..

At the end of the day I have seen some interesting utube vids of D3/4 doing some amazing things and would like to give it a go. Not sure how far I will go along that way, but would like to try.

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16 minutes ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

There are no manual D4's I believe

Damn! That's annoying... :(

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To be honest and on reflection, if I went for a D3/4 I probably wouldn't trial it - a D2 on the other hand :) 

 

So I guess that is a (much needed) tick in the D2 column...

 

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Don't buy a manual D3 they are awful, the clutches are weak and did I mention they are awful? As I said before an SDV6 4 with the 8 speed box is a dream to tow with, engine brakes, picks up perfectly, no switching gears ect

IMHO a manual D3 is akin to having a defender that's only 2wd.

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5 minutes ago, muddy said:

Don't buy a manual D3 they are awful, the clutches are weak and did I mention they are awful? As I said before an SDV6 4 with the 8 speed box is a dream to tow with, engine brakes, picks up perfectly, no switching gears ect

IMHO a manual D3 is akin to having a defender that's only 2wd.

I don’t know about the weak clutch. But they drive perfectly fine and are far more peppy and enjoyable than the automatics. 

And considering Defender diesels where never autos. Your comparison seems rather misplaced. 

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On 9/13/2018 at 9:31 PM, missingsid said:

The diesel has a bad rep in D3 and D4 but this needs to be considered against the numbers produced to see if it is a real problem or not.

No disrepect intended to this forum but have a look at  http://disco3.co.uk join up and have a good read.
All issues, fixes and mods are well documented. 
The diesel D3s got sorted and are awesome.
following their advice you'll be able to make an informed decision and have the support to look after it with minimal tears
 

12 hours ago, ThreeSheds said:

Derail the thread? This is exactly the kind of discussion I was after when I started it - like a few lads chatting down the pub! This is proving to be (for me at least) a most worthwhile read.

Thank you one an all - keep it coming! :D

:stirthepot: :D

 

"Yes - just recently I have been thinking that a D4 might be a better choice... (but still considering all options)"
Definitely the way to go

10 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

"I think it comes down to what you want really. D3's are probably still a little too new to know how they will fair rust wise."

Ooooooh no., I promised my self I wouldn't do this again ..... :pir7:

"The D3 by comparison is a completely different kettle of fish. It is far more "car like" to be in and drive. This arguably makes them nicer on the road, but somehow they feel less "4x4 like"."
Until you get it off road and then the perma grin just gets bigger and bigger
You'll call the car "Martini" because she'll look at you and say "Dad, any terrain, any time, any where ... just bring it" 
For 70% (an arbitary number chasen just for pure badness & devilry) of owners the car will outperform their abilities.

All you have to do is fit the right tyres, use the appropriate pressure and you can become your  groups "Official Discovery 2 Recovery Vehicle!"

"The D3 is a more complex vehicle regardless of if people service them at home or not. It simply has more gear on it, more electronics and more features."
To a degree yes that's true, but its not that big a deal. 
Its a learning curve. Just like you have to learn / modify how you approach driving the D3, you'll do the same with how you service, fault find and fix it.  

"But there is no denying they are big and heavy. They essentially weigh a Lotus Elise more than earlier Discovery's."
And like Rod Stewart's Maggie May, they wear it well.
It'll float effortless across powdery sand, it'll even launch boats from beaches if you do your bit, every day in UK they're pulling horse boxes in muddy fields

"But the real deal killer for me was the optional rear diff locker on the D3. This isn't something that can be retro fitted (unless things have changed??)."
It can't be retro fitted

:Some will say you don't need it"
And they're absolutely correct

"But it's one of those things, it was available, I know I'd use it and would always lament not having it."
So just buy the model / configuration that you want. You pays your money and takes yer pick. What's the problem"?

CD, forgive me for asking but have ever driven one off road in anger?
I don't mean a trip to Sainsbury's, I mean have you really spanked one"
I apologise if I'm wrong but it doesn't sound as if you have

"If you want to off road, there is no denying the D3 is massive."
Reminds me of MotoMoto from Penguins of Madagascar ..... "They a call me MotoMoto, I'm so big they named me twice"

"And bumpers and sills are highly vulnerable and expensive to protect or repair."
Which is why you change the suspension height for one appropriate for the terrain
Which I might add will be customisable with the little box of goodness that they cal the IID2 BT

There's an awesome video of a guy climbing his up a very steep rock wall. He starts on level ground with his bumper almost touching.
First you think he's going to rip the bumper off and then you think he's going to literally fall off the wall but he makes it look easy.

"I would want a V8"
Its what I drive, HSE, and its great but I wanted a diesel and they're not available here.

"or a manual diesel"
Seriously, do not go this way. It'll truly devalue the experience of owning the car
Its like blokes taking off the electronic air suspension, I mean really why would you do that?
In fairness before the D3  I was foresworn to manual but now I wouldn't go back

"If buying a vehicle like this, you might as well buy as high a spec as possible and get as many of the goodies and optional extras you can"
Absoballylutely, its all about the toys and they are wonderful.

"Many diesel manuals don't have the rear seats"
I think you'll find that's only the commercial variants

"To make it worse, because the rear locker is a bit obscure, it is never mentioned in any adverts and even speaker to sellers they have no idea how to confirm if it is present or not."
Follow the link I gave, you'll get that information along with a comprehensive prepurchase check list and various simple functionality tests to help you make a decent purchase 

"Meaning the only way to know is to go and physically inspect the vehicle yourself."
But surely you'd do that as a matter of course in the same way as people check a horse's teeth

"As an alternative option. If you don't need the extra rear seating of the D3, then the RRS becomes a viable option."
I've never driven one but when I looked inside I seem to remember it wasn't nearly as spacious or user friendly cargo wise

"The biggest benefit of the RRS is the more abundant availability of V8's or even supercharged V8's or TDV8's."
Personally the last thing I'd want to be doing would be looking toward a retirement purchase and having to feed a petrol V8 at UK prices.

You know CD I think you feel about D3s the way I feel about D2s and that's ok :lol:

9 hours ago, ThreeSheds said:

The rear locker would be nice, but I've never had one anyway (although always had central lockers) so hopefully the 'terrain response' will be enough, 

I wanted one too but as others told me at the time it isn't necessary

7 hours ago, ThreeSheds said:

 

 

3 hours ago, muddy said:

As I said before an SDV6 4 with the 8 speed box is a dream to tow with, engine brakes, picks up perfectly, no switching gears ect

IMHO a manual D3 is akin to having a defender that's only 2wd.

Muddy I couldn't agree with you more on both points
And to prove the point, we only have to hop over to the Aus forum and see where they're taking theirs and what they're towing behind them.
Surely they can't all be wrong as well as me:lol:

 

3 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

I don’t know about the weak clutch. But they drive perfectly fine and are far more peppy and enjoyable than the automatics. 

And considering Defender diesels where never autos. Your comparison seems rather misplaced. 

But the sentiment is spot on. Again, follow the link and do the research

In fairness & for the sake of full disclosure, yet still totally disagreeing with you about the loathsome D2, I must confess that in the past I have made all the same negative D3 observations and comments as you. I never envisioned a time when I would own such a beast. At the time I hadn't driven one.
Knowing I would need a replacement in the future, having totally rejected the idea of a Disastrous 2 and being OCD I spent ages researching possible replacements & begrudgingly arrived at the D3. Armed with my prejudices I was totally totally prepared to remain a nay sayer and ignore the over whelming positive facts that I'd discovered right up until the moment I drove one. And the rest as they say is history. Here endeth the lesson, peace be with you brother :i-m_so_happy:

Edited by Magnet6x6
spelling

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@Magnet6x6 thanks for replies. Not going to quote you. And i hope this doesn’t come across abs insulting, as that isn’t the intent  

However I would question how much off road experience you have as some of the things you say don’t seem to tally with someone experienced in off roading. And you may want to read up on some D3 specs as you seem to be getting a little muddled on some aspects.

I’m also fully entitled to like manual transmissions.  

 

Edited by Chicken Drumstick

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3 hours ago, Magnet6x6 said:

No disrepect intended.....

so many well made points follow that it made me feel like a week willed floating voter... I am sold sir (for now :) ) 

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19 hours ago, ThreeSheds said:

on reflection, if I went for a D3/4 I probably wouldn't trial it

Hmm, on the other hand - these guys are doing pretty well: 

 

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Interesting digression of views, and an interesting read :)

I like the manual D3 to drive, decent gearbox and feels potent. Great when it works, which is usually the problem.

Dad has a D4 with the 8 speed auto, less decisive than the Brexit strategy in terms of what it wants to do. I do not like it at all. Goes well, but I think it's less refined in its low speed gearchanges than my old D2 V8 with its ZF box.

Off road - well I drove an early 2005 D3 off road and with very little trying got it stuck here, would not move forwards with any amount of right foot so fancy electronic traction controls are not all they are cracked up to be at least on the early ones!

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That looks very like the place Jezza got stuck when he drove one up a mountain...! 

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I have a 2001 D2 which I love driving but usually find a pain in the arse to work on, everything seem a bit crusty and bolts are a pain to undo compared with my older defender and series. But maybe that is just me. If it was on a new chassis then maybe it wouldn’t be so bad as wouldn’t be showered in rust flakes and under seal.

shielder are now making chassis’s for them as Richards always seem way over priced. So it could be worth looking at?

A year ago or so the chap who has discovery2.co.uk was selling his discovery which I was very tempted by as it was already on a galv chassis and well looked after. Can’t remember if it was up for £6-8k. I was very tempted but didnt have the funds at the time and was trying to decide what vehicle I needed for towing/off road hack etc and whether 1 vehicle would do both. Maybe worth contacting him to see if it sold.

Disco 3 my father in law has is a nice truck. Doesn’t feel very lively but you look down at the speedo and you a going fairly quick without realising. Problems he has had: seized handbrake, egr valve, wheel bearing/cv. Manual is ok, but I would prefer the D4 auto

So, longevity re chassis yours. If you don’t like the auto then chip it and a HD torque converter. Love the auto in my V8, but not sure I would in a Td5. £10k you could do a lot with it. 

D2 could be fitted out for sleeping in but removing rear seats will free up a lot of room

Touring the D3/4 would be more spacious with it being very transit shaped

 

 

Edited by Jon W

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On 9/15/2018 at 12:27 AM, Chicken Drumstick said:

@Magnet6x6 thanks for replies. Not going to quote you. And i hope this doesn’t come across abs insulting, as that isn’t the intent  

However I would question how much off road experience you have as some of the things you say don’t seem to tally with someone experienced in off roading. And you may want to read up on some D3 specs as you seem to be getting a little muddled on some aspects.

I’m also fully entitled to like manual transmissions.  

 

Phoohey, I've just lost my post

CD no problem at all, I take your comments as constructive and in no way offensive. I hope mine come across in the same manner
And yes you are fully entitled to any opinion that you choose to hold.

The point here is that you're offering a new comer to the vehicle what appears to be an experienced users advice that directly contradicts my every day experience as an owner driver. As such I feel its only fair to offer the OP what I consider to be the "real world" perspective, which is in direct opposition to a lot of what you've said.

My experience has been gained over 30 years of off road driving in Oman. I started green as grass and have paid a lot school fees for the lessons that I've learned. During my stay I've lived and worked in arduous and remote areas. The terrain has been, desert, mountains, plains, dry & flowing wadis, sand storms etc. ect. etc. The vast majority of these were genuine exploration stroke border line expedition.
On other occasions I've organised formal expeditions to remote areas for a variety of projects.  

I've literally driven thousands of miles off road, on many occasions I've transported & towed boats from inflatables and 2.5m RIBs up to 8m hard boats, for hundreds of miles per trip over graded roads and on arrival launched them from remote sandy and or gravel beaches with no formal vehicle access.
I've done the same with off road trailers and of course without.
I've led family and commercial groups on desert & coastal trips and I frequently go to the desert solo, (Please assume all necessary precautions were in place) well apart from the dog that is.

During that time I've driven Classic Range Rover, 110 V8, Defender V8, Disco 1 300tdi, Disco 2 V8 and for the last five years a D3 V8HSE
For work purposes I've driven a multitude of Toyotas but have no desire to own one.
My last trip was with an a semi pro Aussie photographer, his names credited on one of the photos.  

How about you?

 


 

 

 

 

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Edited by Magnet6x6

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