Thoughts and musings on the new defender

[Mo Murphy]

The good news is it still leaks water.

Authentic eh ?

Mo

[Gazzar]

Will they spray it with rust as it leaves the factory?

Or is that part of the "extras" package?

[Ex Member]

1 hour ago, Gazzar said:

Will they spray it with rust as it leaves the factory?

Or is that part of the "extras" package?

Aluminium.  It will just crack when you drop it off a ledge.

[Gazzar]

Ah! Classic! Galvanic corrosion!

[Happyoldgit]

15 minutes ago, Gazzar said:

Ah! Classic! Galvanic corrosion!

No, no, silly! That's zig zag camo designed to baffle, confuse yet pique interest within certain sections of the media and middle class suburban classes

[Scotts90]

Ahh forever optimistic. It's the same rhetoric rolled out wth most updates/model change/engine change...td5 in a defender? Perish the thought...what an uproar with an electronic throttle..it'll never be popular. 

D2 was "almost" acceptable as it didn't look too different, D3 was slated for numerous reasons as was D4 and suprisingly enough so too the D5. Dare I say it by lots of commenters who have never owned them but going on Internet stats? As a marque they are no more troublesome than any of their counterparts, my Shogun was plagued with not-so-super-select  4wd faults...to the point where I went back to a D2.

So, for what it's worth I'll consider buying one even although I'm definitely rural and not suburban...if it can tow 3500kg, deal with snow, ice and muddy field crossings in a similar state of comfort that the D3,4 & 5 can then why not? (Apart from 12+ pages of unsubstantiated opinions )

[Jamie_grieve]

57 minutes ago, Scotts90 said:

As a marque they are no more troublesome than any of their counterparts,

Can you back that up with statistics please and not unsubstantiated opinion?

47 minutes ago, Scotts90 said:

 

So, for what it's worth I'll consider buying one even although I'm definitely rural and not suburban...if it can tow 3500kg, deal with snow, ice and muddy field crossings in a similar state of comfort that the D3,4 & 5 can then why not? (Apart from 12+ pages of unsubstantiated opinions )

That is exactly the market and use that the defender replacement is aimed at and I'd be confident of it doing all that rather well until the warranty runs out.

That however isn't what a defender was or did particularly well and there were a thousand other vehicles would do all that better. Go back and actually read the 12 pages and highlight things you don't like or understand so we can have an informed discussion and not reduce it to unsubstantiated opinions. Read the technical reasons in the various posts and come back with what you disagree with.

[Scotts90]

My you really have a bee in your technical bonnet over this. I’m sorry if my “thoughts and musings” don’t meet up to the required level of informed discussion.

I’ve read the 12 pages, all very in depth as to why it won’t be any good and why the original defenders were good to a point. 

However, unless you have access to JLRs technical department and know exact and detailed build specs of the replacement vehicle then it’s all guess work...or have I missed something?

[Gazzar]

JLR consistently appear in the bottom of the reliability rankings. 

After the TDI 200 the JLR products experienced a lot of significant design failures. 

It's a fair thing to say that the new model will have a significant weakness, based on history.

 

[Bowie69]

And if you don't believe that...

https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2018/02/top-10-least-dependable-automakers-2018-j-d-power.html

Second from bottom.

 

[Scotts90]

It has nice company though especially in 4x4 territory...Subaru, Mitsubishi and Jeep are all down there.

So thanks for the link, it at least shows it’s contemporaries are just as poorly rated in those surveys

 

[Bowie69]

Indeed, and yet Toyota is in the top 10.

No wonder it conquered Australia.

[Scotts90]

As volume sales go, do you think that the land cruiser is responsible for it being there?

Our local Toyota dealer doesn’t even hold any stock of them

[Scotts90]

https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/files_mf/1544008298ToyotaUKbymodelToyota6518.pdf

Out of 98,000 sold this year less than 700 were landcruisers which equates to 0.7% of their sales. 

[Ozzy50]

Be it good or bad you can be damn sure I won’t be able to  afford a new Defender so I’m very “meh” on the whole thing and if it’s anything like the rest of the current Land Rover range ,which is very likely , then I wouldn’t want one anyway .

Just my two bit opinion .

[Bowie69]

2 hours ago, Scotts90 said:

https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/files_mf/1544008298ToyotaUKbymodelToyota6518.pdf

Out of 98,000 sold this year less than 700 were landcruisers which equates to 0.7% of their sales. 

But..... Ask an aussie.

[Ozzy50]

We all know Land Rover has lost its way regarding REAL off roaders. As capable as the current models are off road they are not reliable enough in a real world ,continuous off road situation, Christ they’re not reliable enough in a real world ON road situation! Toyota still make a no frills proper off roader , Land Rover Dont .

[Scotts90]

3 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

But..... Ask an aussie.

Why? My point being that as a reliability survey goes the LC is hardly representative of the marque with so few being sold per annum  regardless of which country buys them. 

[Bowie69]

I beginning to wonder if you are doing this deliberately.

But Toyota are renowned for reliability, including the Land Cruiser, to say otherwise is just a bit odd.

You certainly can NOT compare it in any way to Land Rover's offerings over the last 15 years.

[Jamie_grieve]

4 hours ago, Scotts90 said:

Why? My point being that as a reliability survey goes the LC is hardly representative of the marque with so few being sold per annum  regardless of which country buys them. 

There have been over 7 million land cruisers sold so far, about 10% of which just in Australia.  It's also a commercial vehicle, not a car in most regions it's sold in so doesn't appear in the comparisons. The link you posted was for UK car sales and the few land cruisers listed are the 100 and 120 series with a few 200's in there. The heavy duty ones are the 105's, the HZ and VDJ 70 series as was explained in earlier posts which we never got in the uk. You can basically compare the defender to any of the ones with 5 studs in the wheels instead of 6.

Their reliability is legendary, they do break, anything does, but just as if you break an anvil, generally you were doing something silly at the time. 

They have a lot of attributes like a Defender in that they are easy to fix, have a huge aftermarket of shoddy Chinese parts and are generally abused and overpriced on the secondhand market.

[BogMonster]

7 hours ago, Ozzy50 said:

We all know Land Rover has lost its way regarding REAL off roaders. As capable as the current models are off road they are not reliable enough in a real world ,continuous off road situation, Christ they’re not reliable enough in a real world ON road situation! Toyota still make a no frills proper off roader , Land Rover Dont .

Got it in one. The plastic tat performs well for a short period or occasional use, but it won't stand up to continuous everyday off road use. Nothing has, the last models that did were the Defender, Discovery series 1 and the original Range Rover Classic.

[Snagger]

13 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

I beginning to wonder if you are doing this deliberately.

But Toyota are renowned for reliability, including the Land Cruiser, to say otherwise is just a bit odd.

You certainly can NOT compare it in any way to Land Rover's offerings over the last 15 years.

I think he has to be trolling!  The evidence is there from LR's product history and the open knowledge that this new platform is going to use most components from the other modern vehicles as they shift to a common platform system.  It'll be expensive, hugely complex and utterly unreliable.  It'll be impossible to have anyone but LR franchises to fix for years, and even once the diagnostic computers are available to independent garages, few will have them, so youi'll be stuck with the overcharging franchises and a vehicle you barely have the opportunity to use in your intended role.  I'll wager the warranty small print will make interesting reading, too.

[Snagger]

13 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

There have been over 7 million land cruisers sold so far, about 10% of which just in Australia.  It's also a commercial vehicle, not a car in most regions it's sold in so doesn't appear in the comparisons. The link you posted was for UK car sales and the few land cruisers listed are the 100 and 120 series with a few 200's in there. The heavy duty ones are the 105's, the HZ and VDJ 70 series as was explained in earlier posts which we never got in the uk. You can basically compare the defender to any of the ones with 5 studs in the wheels instead of 6.

Their reliability is legendary, they do break, anything does, but just as if you break an anvil, generally you were doing something silly at the time. 

They have a lot of attributes like a Defender in that they are easy to fix, have a huge aftermarket of shoddy Chinese parts and are generally abused and overpriced on the secondhand market.

I'm in Perth right now.  The vast majority of the large 4wd vehicles, and almost all all the commercial vehicles I saw while walking about the streets for a few hours were Toymota.  They may be subject to better economics here than many competitors due to shipping distances compared to in other western nations, but they chose them for reliability.  I saw only one Land Rover - a Discovery 1 (couldn't see which engine type).  I haven't seen any big US SUVs or a single German 4wd all day.  Telling, I think.

[Bowie69]

1 hour ago, Snagger said:

I saw only one Land Rover - a Discovery 1 (couldn't see which engine type).

If going any distance in the bush it will be a TDI -petrol isn't available in most remote areas, only diesel.

[Happyoldgit]

This new Defender business. I've read umpteen pages and hundreds of posts of what ifs, assumptions, rumour and so called facts based on what somebody supposedly heard from a reliable, high up source in JLR. My old boss who has been dead decades would have called all of it a load of wind and p1ss ...and I would not hesitate to agree with him.

Happy New year All.