reb78 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Just took the horse trailer round the fields to collect some large tree branches that had fallen the wrong way when cutting. The field is quite steep and i had to reverse the trailer a short way up it. This inevitably meant riding the clutch a little with revs - nothing major that I havent done before. I should have stuck it in low range and ridden the clutch less but was being lazy. As I came off of the clutch fully, the pedal felt funny and it didnt return up fully. I just hooked my toe under and pulled it up. Pumped it once and after that it behaved fine for the rest of the evening (several more trailer loads dragged round to the yard). Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Try oiling the pedal pivots on the pushrod & on the sides of the casing, these get neglected & can cause a sticky pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted April 21, 2019 Author Share Posted April 21, 2019 Thanks Ralph. Will give that a go. Hope thats all it was. Its a 300tdi/td5 pedal on a 200tdi with a stumpy r380 just in case any of thats important! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Same as mine, which has done a similar sticky trick in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 If you have the 300tdi type clothes peg return spring, you might find one side has snapped. I have had 2 do this now, and it keeps working on one side but isn't as strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 I'd also check the clutch fluid and look for any signs of leaks. Had the same happen to my Esprit a few weeks ago, before she left me stranded in downtown Brussels with no drive, because the master had failed and stuck in the depressed position. The Esprit uses the same Girling master as the Defender, but with a smaller bore. Filip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Yes, sounds like a weepy slave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted April 23, 2019 Author Share Posted April 23, 2019 How do you tell the difference between a failed master and failed slave cylinder. I know many say to replace both at the same time, but I am curious at how you distinguish the difference? A leak is (well can be) obvious, but if one fails internally, what are the different signs between the two? I think I must have had three slaves to one master cylinder - in fact I am not even sure I have ever changed the master in the 12 years it has been my daily driver , I don't know if mum ever had it done in the 18 or so years she used it daily! I will give it a thorough check over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Just look for weeping from either, bellhousing or loosen master from servo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 I never saw the point in replacing master and slave at the same time. The Range Rover seems to be eating slaves (the exhaust leak probably isn't helping) without effecting the master, the Esprit recently needed a new master, slave is fine. If the slave fails, you will get a leak, and shoudl be easy to spot. A failed master can leak, but often harder to spot because it's well tucked away. A master can also fail without external leaks, if it allows pressure to flow back to the reservoir instead of into the pipe to the slave. Filip 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted April 24, 2019 Author Share Posted April 24, 2019 Thanks Filip - its that last sentence that I worry about as it is hardest to diagnose. Leaks should be obvious if I look hard enough. It was raining earlier so I havent checked it but did 40 miles this morning and its currently behaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverdrive Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Hope it isn’ t he same issue I had. He pedal felt “funny” and a few presses later the clutch fork punched through! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 On 4/24/2019 at 1:21 PM, Escape said: I never saw the point in replacing master and slave at the same time. The Range Rover seems to be eating slaves (the exhaust leak probably isn't helping) without effecting the master, the Esprit recently needed a new master, slave is fine. If the slave fails, you will get a leak, and shoudl be easy to spot. A failed master can leak, but often harder to spot because it's well tucked away. A master can also fail without external leaks, if it allows pressure to flow back to the reservoir instead of into the pipe to the slave. Filip I always felt the advice to replace both even when only one is faulty was just a sales technique, or maybe came about from mechanics who worked on cars where it was difficult to diagnose which had failed. A slave cylinder is very simple, and if it has failed, it'll be leaking. The master may fail so that the valve to the reservoir allows backflow and doesn't leak externally, but if the pedal moves, operates the master push rod and there is no external leak, then it has to be a master failure, so diagnosis isn't usually that difficult. This, of course, assumes the system is bled and the release fork, release bearing/collar and pressure plate are good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 I think there is some logic to swapping out both, but it will depend on your vehicle history. If you replace the slave, the mere act of bleeding the system can push the master beyond its normal operating stroke, perhaps picking up a bit of rubbish, and nicking the seal. New master time. Also, if one is leaking, there is opportunity for moisture to get in and corrode bits, making the above more likely. Also, clean brake fluid is very good at cleaning stuff, removing any sludge that may be in there helping a seal, seal. By washing it away it can cause an earlier failure than would otherwise have been. So if you know your vehicle history, then go for it, just replace the slave. On my Audi, the slave went recently, at only four years old, I had to replace the master shortly after (the original 28 year and 200,000 miles old), so I know that is still good, and it is not showing any leaks. So, I shall just replace the slave. I was getting some other odd symptoms, so I am also replacing the pipe/hose from master to slave (£100 from Audi) to make sure I don't have any further problems. If you open the cap on your master and it is full of black sludgy stuff some might call brake fluid, then it may well just be a good idea to do the lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 I'd vote for the replacement of both. Both occasions I've changed a slave, the master has followed suit a week or two later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 I've never had that happen on the four LRs I had over 25 years, but we all get different experiences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 It's certainly been my experience that if the slave fails the master is not far behind. So I change them both together. It's a simple job, a relatively inexpensive part and you've already got the clutch circuit open. Why wouldn't you ? Saves wondering if the master is going to fail in a week or two and buying more fluid and bleeding again ! Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted April 25, 2019 Author Share Posted April 25, 2019 The thing that always puts me off of bothering with the master is the spanner access at the back of the master. It just takes ages to faff with those two bolts that hold it to the pedal pivot! I cant find an obvious fault - no leaks at all. Could this just be a one off as also experienced by Ralph? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Grind down a spanner to suit Rich. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 I had the same thing - happened once then nothing for ages and then started doing it more often. It was the master on the way out - given they are both inexpensive I'd replace both if they're of a similar age (I did). I don't remember it being that much of a pain on my 300Tdi. I removed the whole pedal box complete though. On mine if I remember correctly it's bolts from inside the footwell that go into welded nuts, either 4 or 6 of them. Once that was done a bit of jiggling around and twisting through 90 degrees saw the whole assembly come out in-tact. While it was out I took the opportunity to repaint the bulkhead under the box and painted the housing as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 4 hours ago, reb78 said: The thing that always puts me off of bothering with the master is the spanner access at the back of the master. It just takes ages to faff with those two bolts that hold it to the pedal pivot! Plenty of lube and wire brush in a drill to clean the threads before reassembly, then the nuts will just spin on and off easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted May 24, 2019 Author Share Posted May 24, 2019 Just to raise this again. My biting point is sinking lower and lower - i now have about a third of the pedal as free travel before I feel any resistance. No leaks so I guess it’s definitely pointing to the master. I will try and get both today and change at the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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