xychix Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) In France there are regulations also demanding a 'pollution test' for all vehicles from 1980 and up. (Older vehicles aren't subjected to emission tests) And yes my 1979 Series III was first put on a license plate in 1980 - February. The measurement was so bad the machine failed, he clamped the sensor not in but just outside the exhaust and measured 1.5M (2.5M allowed for 1980+ diesel vehicles with no turbo) What can I do to drastically reduce the smoke out of my old n tired 2,25 di? Was really hoping to keep it on the road! Once this round is passed next CT would be in 5 years. regards. Edited July 19, 2019 by xychix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Is it a full emissions test looking for certain gases, or is it just a basic smoke test? Generally as long as the engine is in good health and not worn out (i.e. burning lots of oil) then a good fast drive with some prolonged high revs does wonders for clearing out the pipes. Also known as an Italian tune-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Do you have smoke when driving as it is ? Check all the obvious - clean diesel filter , clean oil at correct level in the air filter , tappet clearances correct . Maybe some injector clean in the tank , not something I bother with but others certainly do . Last but by no means least is the injector pump timing good ? the 2 1/4 diesel suffers from retarded timing due to wear in the skew gear that drives it from the camshaft , when bad enough it shows as blue smoke/haze when driving . To advance timing turn the pump body clockwise (loosen inj. pipes first) . Mark the original position first . hope this is useful Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 As above, but take off the air filter, too, and run it without the oil in it. The oil on the gauze will be enough filter unless it is VERY dusty. Refill with oil after test. Run clean new oil, but on the minimum mark. You might need to get the injectors refreshed, find am injection specialist to test the spray pattern and renew the tips if necessary. A tank of the expensive premium diesel, and maybe a splash of kerosene. But the Italian tune up is best. Once the engine is hot then tap the exhaust with a rubber mallet to shake the soot loose, then a long hot burn to really burn the junk off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 You could always fit a modern engine https://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_sam/ Seriously though, is the smoke black or blue? If it's black you're looking at the fuel system, loads of good advice above. If it's blue then you're looking at pistons, rings, bores valve guides. I'm not a fan of magic potions but an oil additive may get you through the test. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 1 hour ago, steve b said: Do you have smoke when driving as it is ? Check all the obvious - clean diesel filter , clean oil at correct level in the air filter , tappet clearances correct . Maybe some injector clean in the tank , not something I bother with but others certainly do . Last but by no means least is the injector pump timing good ? the 2 1/4 diesel suffers from retarded timing due to wear in the skew gear that drives it from the camshaft , when bad enough it shows as blue smoke/haze when driving . To advance timing turn the pump body clockwise (loosen inj. pipes first) . Mark the original position first . hope this is useful Steve b yep thats helpful. As i've had my hands on the chassis, bearings etc I have no other engine experience as to replace filters. Should have feeler gauges around here somewhere. And how to to pump timing? just advance a little and see if there's less smoke? Car always smokes, when up hill or high speed downhill I always hope noone is watching.... that's the worst. Top speed 60 kp/h at flat road only a mild smoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, rtbarton said: You could always fit a modern engine https://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_sam/ Seriously though, is the smoke black or blue? If it's black you're looking at the fuel system, loads of good advice above. If it's blue then you're looking at pistons, rings, bores valve guides. I'm not a fan of magic potions but an oil additive may get you through the test. in my opinion it's black, don't feel/smells like I'm burning engine oil. (have seen those driving around France and think I'd recognise that smell by now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Does it smoke downhill on overrun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, rtbarton said: Does it smoke downhill on overrun? yes, and quite a bit to my supprise. I expected no load = no smoke.. And (like with the test), when stationary and no gear. A smash on the pedal would easily paint your dog 100% black. Edited July 19, 2019 by xychix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Ametech restore has very good reviews if you decide on a liquid addative regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 1 hour ago, xychix said: yep thats helpful. As i've had my hands on the chassis, bearings etc I have no other engine experience as to replace filters. Should have feeler gauges around here somewhere. And how to to pump timing? just advance a little and see if there's less smoke? Yes , a little at a time , the available adjustment in the slot will keep you safe . Car always smokes, when up hill or high speed downhill I always hope noone is watching.... that's the worst. Top speed 60 kp/h at flat road only a mild smoke. As Gazzar said no oil in the air filter and low oil level may help , I do think you will get the most difference from setting the pump timing . It is highly unlikely it is correct given the age of the Land Rover . When it's right it should sound crisp but not loud diesel knock .( there is a proper procedure to do this detailed in the factory manual involving flywheel marks and removing the small steel cover on the side of the pump body to access the pump timing marks ) Do you have full throttle travel from the pedal to the pump arm ? 60kph is not fast enough even for a 2 1/4 diesel , one other thing , does it have the brake servo vacuum flap on the inlet manifold near the air intake hose ? If it does it needs to work properly as set wrong it can close the air intake at full throttle cheers Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 Just now, steve b said: As Gazzar said no oil in the air filter and low oil level may help , I do think you will get the most difference from setting the pump timing . It is highly unlikely it is correct given the age of the Land Rover . When it's right it should sound crisp but not loud diesel knock .( there is a proper procedure to do this detailed in the factory manual involving flywheel marks and removing the small steel cover on the side of the pump body to access the pump timing marks ) Do you have full throttle travel from the pedal to the pump arm ? 60kph is not fast enough even for a 2 1/4 diesel , one other thing , does it have the brake servo vacuum flap on the inlet manifold near the air intake hose ? If it does it needs to work properly as set wrong it can close the air intake at full throttle cheers Steve b Thanks all for al this info, feel like a newbie again getting 'closer' to engine work. Steve, the vacuum flap is tied on open position as I've installed a Hella UP28 electric vacuumpump to assist with braking. Works like a charm (more info on that in a previous post of mine here). Timing is likely the thing, given even me (as newbie) has found and reset plenty of 'bad repairs' in all sections of this car. (will check the pedal movement first though as thats the easy bit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 As I typed the bit about the vac. flap I thought you had gone electric but wanted to check keep us posted Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 Will sure keep u all posted. As I'm also having friends over, planning a week with the family, getting 7.5 m3 of beton for a terras and having to put a PU floor in my living room it might take a few weeks again, tnx for all the knowledge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil110 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Having had a 2.25 diesel, they are VERY sensitive to pump timing. Adjustment is not difficult, just time consuming. You need to slacken the 3 bolts which secure the pump to the engine, then you need to very slightly loosen the injector pipes at both the pump and the injector. Then you can move the pump to line up the timing pointer with the line engraved on the pump mounting foot. Black smoke generally indicates timing too far advanced, other colours (especially on over run) suggest retarded timing. Continuous black smoke would lead me to suspect the injectors, the 2.25 can be a very clean running engine, without any smoke visible at all. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-Series-3-Defender-Diesel-Fuel-Injector-564332-2-25L-2-5L-NA-TD/122928998309?epid=1027494738&hash=item1c9f23a7a5:g:PDwAAOSwtXtbA9oi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 well all, as can be seen from the last post I've been away for a while. First of,. all my carp... as in EVERYTING to the last spanner, got stolen. By now I have my basics back together, only now we're running a retired Hatz E79 for a generator meaning I'm already covered in oil before touching the landy.... Hope to have a better gen before summer. Will be back at the site end of this month, will do a 4 days offroad trip with some friends but will take the Hilux for that Hope to get the pump set better and will try and flush some injector cleaner trough. These seem the easy ones. Next up the list should likely be the timing chain. Is there a clear procedure on checking that for slack? Pretty sure my pedal steers the full throttle of the pump. At 60 It's screaming so hard that even the cows run away. Maybe compare Revs / KM;'s with someone just to make sure that the landy wasn't given shorter high gear box for the travels it's likely done in Africa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romahomepete Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 First job to do when messing with the pump is to replace the timing chain, they stretch and then you can never get the timing right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) Well as @Neil110 said play with pump timing and @Romahomepete advides a new chain I'd rather get some better diagnosis before starting my first 'under the hood' job other than the easy (but i'm quite ok with electrics) hella up28 pump for vacuum. I decided to use the corona lockdown (france) to get this party started. I'm now uploading a video that hopefully helps the pro's here to further diagnose the problem. Ofcourse on film the smoke looks way less, but I can still smell the oil/diesel mixture as I'm typing this. Please have a look at this: I'll try and post back some video's on whatever work I'm going to do after this hoping it might help others. If the conclusion is "This is quite normal" I'll have an issue at next MOT Edited March 18, 2020 by xychix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigj66 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 I would also suspect a dripping injector(s) and also the possibility of valve stem oil seals being past their best both of which could cause smoke on initial cold startup and incomplete combustion when warm. That said it’s been a good few years since I last played with one of these engines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 @Bigj66 so first of would be to dump a load of injector cleaner in the fuel filter? and the rest of it in the tank? Or would that do no good to an old engine like this. From what I hear from you is: - head off and refurbish that, as I'd expect the valves to be out of the head to replace valve stem oil seals.... - injector is a job from the outside I'd expect - time chain + setting timing also isn't a light procedure. Keep in mind the only engine I've pulled the head of in my life is a Hatz e79 (it did survive and still runs!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Can you advance the timing on the injector pump any more ? If not , it will be wear in the skew gear driving the IP and the oil pump and/or slack in the timing chain . The skew gear adds to the sensitivity of the IP position . Turner Engineering are my first port of call for LR engine parts. cheers Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 Did not touch the pump at all. bet it's been in the current position for at-least the last 10 years. Advancing the timing as in loosen 4 injector pipes (both sides) then loosen the 3 bolts holding the pump down, turning it a tad clockwise. redo it all and drive it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigj66 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, xychix said: @Bigj66 so first of would be to dump a load of injector cleaner in the fuel filter? and the rest of it in the tank? Or would that do no good to an old engine like this. From what I hear from you is: - head off and refurbish that, as I'd expect the valves to be out of the head to replace valve stem oil seals.... - injector is a job from the outside I'd expect - time chain + setting timing also isn't a light procedure. Keep in mind the only engine I've pulled the head of in my life is a Hatz e79 (it did survive and still runs!) The injectors can be removed from the engine and sent for testing of the spray pattern with refurbishment of the tips if required. This may sound simple but if your movements are restricted then it could be some time before you can get this done. The head refurbishment you can do yourself unless specialist work is required and replacing valve stem oil seals is quite straightforward and is covered in various manuals such as Haynes. You Tube is a helpful resource if access to other services is limited. Replacement of a timing chain and gears is also within the scope of DIY so don’t be afraid to give it a go. Landrovers were designed for such scenarios. You have global access to people who can offer advice and support via this very forum so don’t be afraid to ask 💪🏻. One other thought, how are your glow plugs and wiring? Have you tested them to check they are working correctly for cold starting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted March 19, 2020 Author Share Posted March 19, 2020 The only test I did regarding glowplugs is starting and forgetting to glow which usually results in a nostarter when it's a tad colder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted March 19, 2020 Author Share Posted March 19, 2020 Well YOLO, Started tearing of the front wings, will try and get everything in the front in better shape. Might take 2 years Keep u all posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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